Did I get taken?

[dschwarz]

Hi,

I have a 2001 Fleetwood Double Wide. I have a question concerning a recent releveing I had done. The major question is this: Do they need to come in the home to do a relevel? My floors inside are not close to being level (using a masons level). Also, my bathroom door closes on it’s own, a couple of my doors are cocked and not aligned with the frame and I have several dips in the floor near where the two sections are joined? Is this normal after a relevel? The workers never came in the home.

On top of my first question I can’t help but feel that I may have been “taken” and thought I would seek some input from this forum. Apparently, I needed more than just a relevel I needed major work. What also raises my concerns, on top of the home not appearing to be level, is the quality of work that was done. I think it was a tad shoddy:

• 1.T hey replaced my back door but have yet to come back and put the deadbolt back on. Asked several times, no one ever comes.
  2. They said I need fill dirt under my home because I had a lot of water that was building up under there. They charged me $1000.00 for fill dirt since it was “man hour” intensive. They would have to move the dirt by hand. They used a bobcat instead. This of course wrecked my front yard. No price reduction though.
  3. They put some of my skirting on backwards. Not a big deal but shows the quality of work. It looks like I will have to redo it, now it's all crooked looking.
  4. They took down my fence to get the bobcat in and put it back up all crooked. They did a horrific job. They did come back and fix this. Although my fence is loose.
  5. Plus, as I stated above, nothing in inside the home appears level.
  6. You will see a “repair vapor barrier”. Is this the black cover right under the floor? If so, some of that is hanging.

Here is list of the items I was billed for:

• 1. Anchors – replace/repair (6) $50.00 $300.00
  2. Stabilizer Plates and Straps (6) $75.00 $450.00
  3. X/I Longitudal Stabilizer System (6) $150.00 $900.00
  4. Overheads around the home
  Retighted or recap (31) $10.00 $310.00
  5. Floor Framing – repair Piers ( 8 ) $15.00 $120.00
  6. Retighten centerline straps ( 8 ) $10.00 $80.00
  7. Floor framing – repair vapor barrier (1) $25.00 $25.00
  8. Releveling mobile home repair
  Skirting/install 32x76 exterior door
  At rear of home (1) $950.00 $950.00
  9. Add dirt under home (1) $1000.00 $1000.00

Total $4,160.00

From what you can see, how bad is it?

Thanks!!

Don

[JD]

Hi Don,

First, I would like to say that is is easy to make criticisms of this repair list judging it by what we have seen or experienced in our homes or other homes as professionals. The fact is, we did not see your home to be able to make a true evaluation.

That being said, having been in this business a long time, I would have to say that is quite a list for a relevel/repair on a 7-8 year old home. I am guessing that I have been involved in a couple of hundred relevels and with the exception of pressure treated wood pads, I have not needed to replace many hard parts. Maybe a couple of piers that rusted real bad, a few pier tops because they were rusted so bad it was easier to replace them than deal with them. Wood pads can rot after 20 years or so if they are buried or leveled with dirt. I have also seen quite a few homes that were not set up properly to begin with and did not have the minimum number of piers required, or the piers were adjusted out past the acceptable limit. This can add quite a bit to a relevel price.

Were the stabilizers added to your existing set-up or were they replacements to the system you already had? I am not sure which system they are, or if it is a complete permanent foundation system on their own.

As to the price, again hard to say. If you needed all the things they sold you, maybe it was a fair price. We install an entire new permanent foundation system for about $2800, a relevel after the installation for $450 and a outswing back door for about $400. So that would be somewhat close in price. Well, sort of close. I would not sell you dirt. But if you did not need all these other parts and needed a relevel and door, then it would not be a very good deal for you.

As for the work, I not add dirt under a home. There would be no way to compact it. Maybe concrete in a ponding area would work or maybe there is dirt ai don't know about that would displace water rather than have the water displace the dirt. I am not much of a dirt guy. But those rotted pressure treated wood pads rotted because water pushed loose dirt around them or caused the ground to soften allowing the pier pads to sink into the dirt. The pads that stay dry on top of the ground do not rot like that. It is only when the edges of the pads are level or below grade that they rot.

Not coming in the house after a relevel is also very puzzling. When we finish a relevel, we go inside and check all doors and windows to see that they operate correctly or need adjustment. We want to check for squeaks. Although we do not guarantee no squeaks because we did a relevel, sometimes squeaks can be easily remedied (sometimes not). The checking of the exit doors and egress windows should always be a minimum.

Now for all the symptoms of poor work. A home is leveled where the piers meet the frame. What happens on the top side of the floor may or may not be ideal due to past repairs or workmanship. But what you describe sure does not sound right. Problem is, it might cost you another $200 to hire a different contractor to come out and check the level of the home. You can put a 6' beam (carpenters) level on the frame from pier to pier. But this just gives you some possible insight. A beam level is not accurate enough to be sure if your home is level or not. There is no excuse for installing skirting backwards. I know it is a simple thing, but that is why a professional should not make that mistake.

I know what I am saying here does not give a definitive answer to your question, but I don't think I could without seeing the job before things were replaced. It could go either way really. You could have been sold way more stuff than you needed, or you could have received a bid within reason. Your description of the work quality is not so good though. It just seems to me that the steel parts should still be good after 7-8 years, unless you are on the coast with saltwater problems.

JMO
JD

[dschwarz]

Thanks JD for your reply.

Hi Don,
I am guessing that I have been involved in a couple of hundred relevels and with the exception of pressure treated wood pads, I have not needed to replace many hard parts.

The pads looked like hard plastic rather than wood. I was under the home running a network cable a while ago and everything looked ok. But it probably would to someone like me. The frame was off some of the pillars but the block stacks were ok and the pads seemed fine. The blocks had wood on top of them and wedges.

Were the stabilizers added to your existing set-up or were they replacements to the system you already had? I am not sure which system they are, or if it is a complete permanent foundation system on their own.

If you are talking about the X/I Longitudal System, the contractor said mine was shot and was not doing it's job. It needed to be replaced. I don't know why it would go bad. Since we are about 40 miles from the east coast he harped on Hurricanes and said we would be in trouble if they were not replaced.

As to the price, again hard to say. If you needed all the things they sold you, maybe it was a fair price. We install an entire new permanent foundation system for about $2800, a relevel after the installation for $450 and a outswing back door for about $400. So that would be somewhat close in price.

I have no concrete under my home. The stacks and pads sit directly on the ground. He said the dirt was needed to keep the water from pooling under the home. They did pull out the plastic that was on the ground and threw it away. I don't know if I really needed that or not.

I know what I am saying here does not give a definitive answer to your question, but I don't think I could without seeing the job before things were replaced. It could go either way really. You could have been sold way more stuff than you needed, or you could have received a bid within reason. Your description of the work quality is not so good though. It just seems to me that the steel parts should still be good after 7-8 years, unless you are on the coast with saltwater problems.

A friend of mine used to work for a Manufactured Home Installer. I know, somone always has a friend who knows everything Anyway, he told me that they always went inside when leveling a home to make sure the interior floor was level as well as the underside. Now this was on new setups not re-levels. So I don't really know the difference. I just know that a bubble level on the interior floor is way off.

I still owe this company around $3200. Making payments. I don't mind paying but they are apparently not big on easing my fears. My contact just keeps brushing me off with "someone will be by to check on that, or fix this", and they never come. So I am considering hiring another contractor to check the work and eat the cost. At least have some peace of mind.

Know anyone around Orlando Florida??

Don

[Demolition]

In Arkansas we have something called the Manufactured Home Commission. They are an independent government agency that regulates the Mobile Home business.
See if you have a commission or board like that in your state and contact them. Maybe a State Inspector will come out and evaluate the situation. Maybe someone else has complained, maybe not.
In a Quality Management class they told us: only 1 out of 10 people actually complain when they have a problem. I am not saying the installer was wrong or not. But it does seem weird they didnt come in and play with the doors.

[Yanita]

Hi,

I learned a long time ago, if you are going to hire out your work then get before and after photos of all jobs. This protects you and the contractor. Best if you use something other than a digital camera as well.

As said before, we really can not say if the work is substandard without seeing what the place was like before hand.

I personally feel that you might want to not continue payments until the work has been completed to your satisfaction. Make notes of what you feel was substandard, present it to the company and get the fix it list signed by you and them.

A re level can sometimes cause minor damage to the home, cracks in walls, minor ones though. To have large dips etc in your floors to me is not acceptable and something should be done to make this right. The problem is...you said they never came in your home...before or after, so who listens to who in this situation.

Again, we are not disputing what you are saying, simply we can not really take sides.

Speak with the company, if you do not get action/results, then at some point simply state that you are considering notifying BBB or whomever you deem necessary.

Good luck and keep us posted on your results.

I am going to move this to the Off Topic forum as it is not a repair question.

Thanks,
Yanita