Instant water heaters

[Mark440]

I'm looking to refi while the rates are down, and the VA has a program that allows up to $6000 in energy upgrades that I can roll into my loan.

The two items that come to mind for upgrade are my single-pane windows and the water heater. (My last bill was nearly $400 for 1200sqft - and I nearly had a cow! Thermostat at 72!)

I've read posts on the windows and it sounds like Pella will fit the need. So next is the water heater.

Has anyone installed or had experience with the "instant on" water heaters? Of course every seller's website has all the money saving sales pitches... but what are the pitfalls?

I did read some info on a site that indicated the coils would have to be de-scaled maybe once a year. Also actual water usage may increase a bit while you wait for the lead-in to get hot.

The units aren't cheap - so any feedback before I take the plunge would be great!

PS - No way I would install myself. These things draw a huge chunk of power so I would want to have a pro verify the circuit can handle it. And...secondly...I have a short fuse when it comes to plumbing. I mean - why can't the water just run down the pipe without trying to ooze out every little spot I didn't seal up!?!?! lol!)

[Rod]

Vinyl windows are always good way to help save on energy. Pella has the Thermatar line available at most lowes I believe. I have installed these on numerous jobs and have had no problems.

2 others to look at.

Silverline (all vinyl product built by anderson) I
installed them on a rental building we own last fall and the tenants have all said they can feel the difference. Purchased with low-e, argon gas, grids for about $165 each 36x48

Philips (margue 800 series) These guys make the standard sized Mobile Home Replacement windows at a reasonable cost. Just make sure to get them with low-e & argon if you want the most effeciencey. When we do replacements on MH's these are what we use.

As for the Instant hot water heaters it sounds like you are considering electric. If you want to do the whole house you will need a bunch of power/amps. Unless you have 200 amps supplied to the house and a 200 amp service panel it probably wont be worth it.

I installed a point of use one in my shop at a cleaning sink and just that little one requires 40 amps.

As for the possibility of a gas unit. In a MH they need to be sealed combustion per HUD and I'm not sure if one is available yet. You may want to do some research.

Hope this helps

Rod

[Yanita]

Hi,

You mentioned windows, don't forget the doors. Also insulation, energy star appliances, gas packs and heat pumps, programmable thermostats.

As for the tank less water heaters, we are kind of on the fence here about them. If you live in northern regions they do not seem to work well. Check with your insurance company and local codes office before install.

Yanita

[Greg]

Mark, I would look very close at the payback point. To recoup the cost of the unit, you will need to save a whole lot of water & energy. Greg

[Harry]

Hi Mark

I've thought about tankless also.

For now I'm going to try a water heater timer for my electric water heater. Do a google on "water heater timer" and you'll see lots of info.

Also my power company recommends insulating the water heater tank and pipes to save energy. Here's a link:

http://www.progress-energy.com/custserv ... ter.asp#b4

Harry

[Yanita]

Hi,

Your local utility provider should come out and install one of these timers for free..at least ours did. We not only have one on the water heater but the AC unit as well. We notice no difference in our hot water availability and seems to make no difference in the AC performance. With doing this we are also credited 10.00 per month seven months out of the year.

Not all water heaters require a blanket, check your unit to be sure if one is recommended for yours, or not needed.

Yanita

[Greg S]

The pay back time on electric on demand hot water heaters is quite long due to the initial cost.
In addition they require a minimum water pressure, I believe 30lb depending on the model, or they will shut off. This is perticularly important if you are in a park as at peek demand times you may lose hot water. In addition if you do have pressure problems this may put high stress on the heating coils and cause them to prematurly burn out.

[Lorne]

Gas fired would be a lot cheaper, but still you are looking at a Whopping Plumbing bill along with the electrician.

I think it's a little way to satisfy peoples need for everything Instant. Insulate the heater really well and insulate your hot water piping,so their is less heat loss on the way to your faucets.

[Yanita]

Hi,

First off these units do not supply instant hot water, there will be the usual wait as the water in the lines will be cold (the water from the heater to the faucet) before the heated water gets to you.

Yanita

[Jim from Canada]

Again, I bring up my concern about "on demand" water heaters being rated for MH's. I don't think there is a gas fired unit that is, or am I mistaken?
Yes, it takes time for the hot water to get from the heater to the faucet. The same as a tank.
I am so happy to see people are saying "water heater" instead of "hot water heater", hot water doesn't need to be heated, lol (yes, I listen to George Carlin)

Jim

[Yanita]

ROFL, that is a pet peeve of my Hubby's as well..he's a plumber.

Yanita

[Greg]

OK so you would rather call it a cold water heater?? Greg

[Dean3]

Properly sizede and installed a good on demand WH can be a good thing,I tried skimping twice and the results here in NE IA are less than adequate,,,useable for just Me but would *never* satisfy a family.

Dean

[oldfart]

Mark before you make any decisions on the tankless hot water heaters Google up Consumer Report. Trust me. Now yup..yer in the area where they actually do pay the biggest dividends. But! There's my big BUT! .. again...eh! Mark the tecknowlegy (++++ spell-checker!) just isn't here yet. Tankless water heaters require a HUGE amount of energy instantly...and they still don't heat instantly as has been mentioned. Even in Texas... if the water is coming out of the ground at 55/60 degrees...(below 80ft. on average) yer trying to heat it up to (?) 120 deg. to wash something..instantly. Ain't gonn'a happen Mark. Not without a ++++load of energy being used to heat it up poste-haste. Whether it's electric or gas..this thing has to heat up a coil of copper/alum. or whatever....filled with water..instantly. Now if the water is pre-heated via solar panels..yup..that'd work! Long as the sun is shining. But quite frankly this is a no-brainer at present. A small tankless water heater under a bathroom sink will work. To work for a whole home for a family of 3...nope. Not yet at least. Don't believe the hype from the manufacturers. Pure and unadulterated Texas horse-apples. And that's not just my humble opinon..that's Consumer Reports opinion as well. Audie..the Oldfart...

[Dean3]

Don't forget the benefit that properly sized/working a tankless on demand water heater has,,it is "endless" hot water. So a big quality unit should help much since there is no tank to wait for while it reheats if folks are lined-up for showers. The other supposed benefit,and what I am trying to atain,,is that with low usage(I'm alone here)there are not energy costs for keeping a tank hot when not in use..There are some very efficient tanked units tho soooo??????

Dean