Pex...and Barry nearly had a heart-attack!

oldfart · Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:54 am

Well now folks I'm not quite sure where to post this since Mz. Yanita busted my chops on repairing a toilet (giggle!)..but I'll start here and see where it winds up.

Anyways...headed down to neighbor Barrys on Sat. to do a little job. (1984 s.w.) Seems he found some drowned rats in his water-softener (seriousley!!) and decided to replace the water-softener and hot water heater both. Just in case there might be some contamination. I figgered it would be a coupl'a hour job..yeah..right. Nothing in a mobile home is a coupl'a hour job.

The plumbing was the old-style Quest type. And of course there was 1/4in. tube..3/8ths. tube..1/2in. tube and 3/4in. tubing. Great.....just flippin' great! AND...none of the fitting are available for the old style Quest pipe. Don't know why..doesn't matter. So we decided to up-grade to Pex. The new Pex...with the fittings that don't require a special tool to crimp 'em. Sharks-teeth or something they call it. Ahhh..simpler, no special tools required...just cut it and fit it...shove the pipe into the fitting and SHAZZAM! Done. Well... almost.

On the upside I found out that the new fittings will not only work on the old style Quest pipes..they work on copper! Yeah! Just remove the little white plastic peice inside the fitting and you can shove an original copper pipe in there and BOOM..done! Shove in a length of Quest...BOOM! Done! No crimping, no soldering..nada..zip. And if it's the wrong length pipe just release the fitting and re-cut and re-fit and press it together. I love this stuff!

Now for the down-side. $181 worth of fittings to re-install a hot water heater and a water softener. The "fittings" (various 90deg. and simple couplings) plus 2 brass T's, a coupl'a reducers and 2 flexible couplings cost $181. Barry nearly had a heart attack.

Yup..it's easy and no special tools required other than the tool to remove the fittings which Zargers Plumbing gave us for free. The fittings cost about $7 ea. on average...these are brass fittings, not the plastic ones Lowes and Home Depot sell for the exact same price. I'm still not impressed. Love the way it works..the cost of the fittings is rediculous. I can see the cost of a machined brass fitting at $7..the price of a plastic fitting the same?? I don't think so. JMHO of course. Audie...the frugal Oldfart...

Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:16 pm

Nothing beats using the correct crimp-on fittings. For what you spent, you could have bought a crimping tool and almost all the fittings and had no worry about those shark-bite fittings leaking or blowing out in the future.

The only crimp fittings made for the old poly are transition fittings that will adapt you from the old to the new. Those work great!

Mark

stillworking · Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:43 pm

Mark....Does this mean you are not a fan of the sharkbite fittings? I ask because I'm getting ready to redo a mobile home to pex and was really thinking of using sharkbite - thinking that perhaps the savings in labor would offset the cost in material. But if they are more prone to leaking or blow-out, I'll stay with the pex fittings and crimpers (which I already have). p.s. I totally agree that the sharkbite prices are outrageous.

Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:54 pm

At this time I am not a fan of any compression-type fitting like Sharkbite. Mostly because I've seen what can happen when they fail. Seems like every couple a years a new type comes out. Yet the tried and true crimp ring has withstood a couple decades of service.

As far as labor, with the crimp rings you just squeeze a handle. I would think it would take longer to install a compression-type fitting.

Mark

oldfart · Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:30 am

Mark I don't know what the failure rate is of the "Shark-Bite" fittings. This is my first venture in that particular area. The benefit of the new style fittings is time saving. One simply pushes the pipe into the fitting and it's done. Copper to Quest/ Quest to Pex. Push it in..done. On the upside it's simple and easy. The downside is the cost of the fittings. If the job requires few fittings then I'd say.."Go for it!" If it requires a lot of fittings and odd angles...hmmm? The, now "old style Pex" required a special crimping tool. But the crimp could be re-done if it failed. Just cut off the crimp and use a new one on the old fitting. One of the most expensive parts on this simple job was the requirement that the fittings for the first 18in. entering and exiting the hot water tank be "of metal." Not wishing to do any soldering on copper and due to the odd angles... we opted for the 18in. flexible copper tubing. Much like standard propane stove hook-ups..at $20 a pop. That's $40 for 2 fittings! The gist of it is "they" (the gov't) want a device to prevent anyone walking by the hot-water heater to be secure from scalding if/when said tank would exceed 180 deg. in tempreture and "excessive pressure." AND..the "Pop-Off Valve" on every hot water heater sold since 1906 would have to fail as well..at the very moment you walk past. I surmise if one walked by and the incoming cold water line ruptured one might be chilled by the onslaught of water....perhaps causing a heart attack! A slight chance of course..but one our lawyers must be cognizant of. No sense passing up a lawsuit..eh? Now..in afterthought...if one is that unluckey, perhaps one should not opt for running water in ones house. JMHO of course....Audie..the Oldfart.

JD · Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:57 pm

I think there may be a significant difference in Sharkbite fittings and the plastic Lasco compression type fittings. For one, Sharkbite is approved for behind wall installations where the plastic compression fittings are not. I see where the plastic compression fittings advertise as emergency and temporary repairs also.

I use SSC (stainless steel) rings, but have recommended the Sharkbites to customers that wanted to do a repair themselves. I have not heard of failures from them or in the news in regards to the Sharkbite fittings.

I think if you were doing a total replumb of the home, the crimp tools and rings would be a better way to go. Once you buy the tool(s) the rings are dirt cheap. You would have the tools for future repairs.

If it is just a single or small repair, the Sharkbite would be a lot cheaper than buying the tools or paying a plumber. Another option is to rent the pex tools.

JD

Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:59 pm

I have to admit I passed-off the Sharkbite as just another plastic compression fitting. Maybe I should take a closer look at them.

Meanwhile, we are finally put up a page of pex tools and fittings. Maybe soon we'll add the Sharkbite to this page:

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/Order7-pex.html

Mark

Robert · Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:45 pm

Here's my 2 cents on it. The Sharkbite fittings are still new enough that they have not passed the test of time.

They are ok'd for behind the wall use, BUT most items that are not were at one time until........... .

Do you want your home to be linked to that word until ?

Buy the crimp tool, make the repair or do the replumb, never have any worries about that word until and afterwards, sell the tool on ebay.

Now, if it is a repair of no real damage other than lost water if it blows, go for it, but I would seriously think about the what if factor before placing a sharkbite behind a wall.

Look at how many installs and how much damage was done by the old gray poly fittings before the word got out.

When new, they were the latest and greatest and easy for homeowners and DIY.

When I walk away from a job, I like to know there is the highest possibility of not returning for a call back or a redo in my own home.

I have researched them, but never used them. Just haven't become convinced yet, but the jury is still out and if proven reliable to a high standard, will gladly give them a shot.

Have some work this summer where I plan to use them and see how they hold w/o worry of damage if they blow.

Take care and best wishes,
Robert