Just found this forum by a similar question that was posted on the old forum. I have an Evcon heat pump model number BRHS0361 BB with possibly a bad contactor. I say possibly because it's acting rather strange. I'm getting 26 VAC at the coil but only if I measure it with at least one of the smaller gauge wires removed from the coil. Once I connect the coil back in line I get 1 VAC or so and the coil does not stay pulled in. The odd thing is I removed the contactor from the unit and supplied 26 VAC to the coil and it pulled it in and kept it there until I removed power.
I appears the larger gauge wire that is coming off the circuit board to the coil is somehow pulling it to ground but I'm not sure of its function.
So could it still be a bad contactor? Or maybe a bad board. I'm pretty sure I have traced it back to either of these two suspects. I'm going to replace the contactor at any rate because it is looking pretty burnt from the coil trying to pull it in and releasing it repeatedly.
I suppose the coil could be functional but is shorting to ground when in use. I guess I'm just hoping it's not the CB.
If it turns out to be the CB what does something like that cost?
I appreciate any help that anyone can give me.
Thanks
Dean
Coleman Evcon Heat Pump
Somewhere you are loosing the power side of the 24 volt circuit. You disconnected the one wire off your contactor in the outside unit proved that you have 24 volts but what you do not have is the VA power behind it to pull the contactor in.
I would first check to make sure all the low voltage connections both inside and outside are clean and well put together. All it takes is a loose or corroded wire to cause this problem.
You said that if you apply the contactor with another source of 24 volts it pulls in. That further proves that you have a loss of VA (volt amps) which is the power behind the 24 volts.
Check all your connections especially in the outside unit to see if you can find the problem. Then post back.
I would first check to make sure all the low voltage connections both inside and outside are clean and well put together. All it takes is a loose or corroded wire to cause this problem.
You said that if you apply the contactor with another source of 24 volts it pulls in. That further proves that you have a loss of VA (volt amps) which is the power behind the 24 volts.
Check all your connections especially in the outside unit to see if you can find the problem. Then post back.
God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
-
Dean
Thanks, I'll do that.
I got the 24 volts to apply to the coil from the thermostat inside the house. I used jumper wires from the R and C terminals. I assume that means the VA is good at least to there.
I did find a broken C wire on the inside unit, when I was checking voltages at the transformer, but I think that broke when I pulled the cables looking for broken or loose wires. DOH! At any rate I fixed that problem but my original problem persists.
I'll take another look at in the outside unit. It's rather difficult to see much since the unit was installed under the front deck and the control side is towards the house.
A couple of other problems I've been having with this heat pump, when it was running, is when it cycles off after a heating cycle it makes a groaning sound like pressure is being released and in the winter it ices up pretty bad sometimes.
Could it possibly be time to replace the unit and just be done with it or do you think it worth putting more time and or money into it? I'm not sure how old it is but I've been here for 6 years and it wasn't new then.
Thanks for the reply.
Dean
I got the 24 volts to apply to the coil from the thermostat inside the house. I used jumper wires from the R and C terminals. I assume that means the VA is good at least to there.
I did find a broken C wire on the inside unit, when I was checking voltages at the transformer, but I think that broke when I pulled the cables looking for broken or loose wires. DOH! At any rate I fixed that problem but my original problem persists.
I'll take another look at in the outside unit. It's rather difficult to see much since the unit was installed under the front deck and the control side is towards the house.
A couple of other problems I've been having with this heat pump, when it was running, is when it cycles off after a heating cycle it makes a groaning sound like pressure is being released and in the winter it ices up pretty bad sometimes.
Could it possibly be time to replace the unit and just be done with it or do you think it worth putting more time and or money into it? I'm not sure how old it is but I've been here for 6 years and it wasn't new then.
Thanks for the reply.
Dean
WOW the first thing to do is get that unit moved from under the deck. NO manufacturer allows outside units to be installed there. It has to do with air flow/recirculating air flow and service clearances.
That noise you here is probably standard fair when it comes to heat pumps. When the reversing valve kicks in it will male a very loud swish sound and the unit will become nosier for some time while it defrosts. Having the unit under the deck probably does not help the defrost any because when it goes off of defrost it will pick up all the moisture laden vapor from under the deck. BAD news also.
Somewhere along the line you are loosing the power behind the voltage. Have you jumped the thermostat out or fed 24 volts off the transformer directly outside?
Ten years is older but not old enough to get a new heat pump when the only problem you are having is a low voltage one.
What kind of thermostat do you have?
That noise you here is probably standard fair when it comes to heat pumps. When the reversing valve kicks in it will male a very loud swish sound and the unit will become nosier for some time while it defrosts. Having the unit under the deck probably does not help the defrost any because when it goes off of defrost it will pick up all the moisture laden vapor from under the deck. BAD news also.
Somewhere along the line you are loosing the power behind the voltage. Have you jumped the thermostat out or fed 24 volts off the transformer directly outside?
Ten years is older but not old enough to get a new heat pump when the only problem you are having is a low voltage one.
What kind of thermostat do you have?
God, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
-
Dean
I'm thinking that whoever had the unit installed probably did so before the deck was installed. Then somebody decided to put the deck on top of that. The house is on a hill so there is some room under there but I agree that it is not the smartest place for it to be located.
I haven't had time to look at it today but I'll try and take a look again tomorrow.
I didn't try running a different line from the transformer to the coil if thats what you mian. I thought since I was seeing 24 volt when the coil was not connected that it was good. If you think running a different line will help narrow it down I'll try that tomorrow.
I have a programmable Honnywell thermostat.
Dean
I haven't had time to look at it today but I'll try and take a look again tomorrow.
I didn't try running a different line from the transformer to the coil if thats what you mian. I thought since I was seeing 24 volt when the coil was not connected that it was good. If you think running a different line will help narrow it down I'll try that tomorrow.
I have a programmable Honnywell thermostat.
Dean
Hi Dean,
You need a minimum of 60" from top of condenser unit to the deck.
I do not like having a deck or anything over top of units, but if it is a must, be sure it has at least a 60" clearance.
As for the 24V problem. Remove the Yellow (Y) wire from t-stat and trace test it all the way to contactor coil.
It most likely goes from t-stat to furnace terminal strip and then on to condenser contactor coil.
Without a call for cooling, test for 24V between R and C at t-stat and also from R to Y.
IF you have 24V at both, then disconnect the Yellow wire and thoroughly check it.
OR, replace that wire from t-stat all the way to contactor coil, probably two runs in that distance.
That is where your problem most likely lies.
Take care and best wishes,
Robert
You need a minimum of 60" from top of condenser unit to the deck.
I do not like having a deck or anything over top of units, but if it is a must, be sure it has at least a 60" clearance.
As for the 24V problem. Remove the Yellow (Y) wire from t-stat and trace test it all the way to contactor coil.
It most likely goes from t-stat to furnace terminal strip and then on to condenser contactor coil.
Without a call for cooling, test for 24V between R and C at t-stat and also from R to Y.
IF you have 24V at both, then disconnect the Yellow wire and thoroughly check it.
OR, replace that wire from t-stat all the way to contactor coil, probably two runs in that distance.
That is where your problem most likely lies.
Take care and best wishes,
Robert
Last edited by Robert on Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Some people are Humbly Grateful, while some are Grumbly Hateful.................... Which one are you ?
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Dean
Hi Robert,
I think there might be 30" at best above the unit. If I was to cut out the deck above it and replace it with some kind of steel grate do you think that would do? Moving this thing would be a real pain as I am limited as to where I could put it. Not to mention it's not the most attractive thing in the world.
I buzzed out the yellow wire as you suggested. Looks good all the to the air handler and to the outdoor unit. I then checked for voltages both with a call for air and without.
When it wasn't calling I got 24 volts, actually almost 28 volts, between R C as well as R Y.
When it was calling I got 28 volts between R C but not R Y. The odd thing is, that was when measuring at the wires themselves. When checking between R Y on the board I got 28 volts. Until I connected the coil back in where I lost the voltage.
I hope those clues tells you something. It's still sounding like the contactor somehow to me but being a rookie at this, at least HVAC systems, I'm kind of just taking a stab in the shade!
Thanks
Dean
I think there might be 30" at best above the unit. If I was to cut out the deck above it and replace it with some kind of steel grate do you think that would do? Moving this thing would be a real pain as I am limited as to where I could put it. Not to mention it's not the most attractive thing in the world.
I buzzed out the yellow wire as you suggested. Looks good all the to the air handler and to the outdoor unit. I then checked for voltages both with a call for air and without.
When it wasn't calling I got 24 volts, actually almost 28 volts, between R C as well as R Y.
When it was calling I got 28 volts between R C but not R Y. The odd thing is, that was when measuring at the wires themselves. When checking between R Y on the board I got 28 volts. Until I connected the coil back in where I lost the voltage.
I hope those clues tells you something. It's still sounding like the contactor somehow to me but being a rookie at this, at least HVAC systems, I'm kind of just taking a stab in the shade!
Thanks
Dean
Last edited by Dean on Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dean
Well on 2nd thought, or is it 27th thought by now, 
it may not be the contactor. I had thought maybe the coil was internally shorting to ground when bolted back inside the unit. However I just jumperd the R terminal to the coil with only the yellow wire on the other side and it pulled in just fine. Also with no connections to the coil I show no continuity to the chassis.
So does that rule out the contactor completely? Like I said in a previous post I intend to replace it anyway, once the shops are open tomorrow, since the contacts look like they have taken a bit of a beating. But I'm not very confident that is the fix.
it may not be the contactor. I had thought maybe the coil was internally shorting to ground when bolted back inside the unit. However I just jumperd the R terminal to the coil with only the yellow wire on the other side and it pulled in just fine. Also with no connections to the coil I show no continuity to the chassis.So does that rule out the contactor completely? Like I said in a previous post I intend to replace it anyway, once the shops are open tomorrow, since the contacts look like they have taken a bit of a beating. But I'm not very confident that is the fix.
Hi Dean,
I edited above reply of mine. It should have said "without a call for cooling, not with a call for cooling.
Sounds like contactor is fine. You have ran 24v to it two different ways and it worked.
With what you have stated, I believe if you'll run NEW t-stat wire from transformer to t-stat and from t-stat to condenser and from transformer to condenser, your problem will go away.
You probably have a wire from transformer to a terminal strip R or wire nut.
Then t-stat wire from terminal strip to t-stat.
Then a wire from terminal strip Y or wire nut (connected to t-stat Y wire) going to contactor coil.
Then a wire from transformer straight to contactor or it may go to terminal strip or be wire nutted, then to contactor coil.
I believe the problem lies in the wires themselves.
The power to contactor comes through the wire connected at t-stat to the Y connection.
Trace that wire, whatever color, through the terminal strip or wire nut to the contactor coil.
You know the 24V gets to the t-stat by operating contactor coil from t-stat directly.
So, wire or wires from t-stat Y-yellow and then the common side from transformer common side to other side of contactor coil.
That wire runs straight from transformer to the contactor coil.
When the 24V arrives from t-stat, coil pulls in.
IF you replace those two wires, you should be ok, then replace contactor due to wear of contact points.
To test this theory, turn power to furnace and a/c OFF. Get two long sections of suitable wire.
Go to transformer, locate common terminal on 24V secondary side.
You have two terminals, one is power and goes to t-stat. The other is common and goes directly to contactor coil.
Remove that wire and connect one end of one wire section.
Go to contactor coil, remove the wire from transformer common terminal and connect other end of that wire section after running it from transformer to contactor(run along floor and out a window).
Then, remove the other contactor coil wire and connect one end of 2nd wire section.
Run it along shortest route to the t-stat.
Remove wire from Y-yellow connection on t-stat and connect other end of that wire section.
Turn all power ON and set t-stat to call for cooling.
See if contactor works.
If the deck is ugly and not needed, cut it up and remove.
At 30", it is a MUST to remove OR create a LARGE complete opening above the unit.
I had a customer with same problem and he didn't remove his, but instead replaced a fan motor and two run caps before he moved and left with new owner.
Unit never worked right. He had two units also side by side under there and both were constant problems.
I came into picture right before he moved, but it had been well traveled with repairs prior and during my tenure.
Keep us posted.
Take care and best wishes,
Robert
I edited above reply of mine. It should have said "without a call for cooling, not with a call for cooling.
Sounds like contactor is fine. You have ran 24v to it two different ways and it worked.
With what you have stated, I believe if you'll run NEW t-stat wire from transformer to t-stat and from t-stat to condenser and from transformer to condenser, your problem will go away.
You probably have a wire from transformer to a terminal strip R or wire nut.
Then t-stat wire from terminal strip to t-stat.
Then a wire from terminal strip Y or wire nut (connected to t-stat Y wire) going to contactor coil.
Then a wire from transformer straight to contactor or it may go to terminal strip or be wire nutted, then to contactor coil.
I believe the problem lies in the wires themselves.
The power to contactor comes through the wire connected at t-stat to the Y connection.
Trace that wire, whatever color, through the terminal strip or wire nut to the contactor coil.
You know the 24V gets to the t-stat by operating contactor coil from t-stat directly.
So, wire or wires from t-stat Y-yellow and then the common side from transformer common side to other side of contactor coil.
That wire runs straight from transformer to the contactor coil.
When the 24V arrives from t-stat, coil pulls in.
IF you replace those two wires, you should be ok, then replace contactor due to wear of contact points.
To test this theory, turn power to furnace and a/c OFF. Get two long sections of suitable wire.
Go to transformer, locate common terminal on 24V secondary side.
You have two terminals, one is power and goes to t-stat. The other is common and goes directly to contactor coil.
Remove that wire and connect one end of one wire section.
Go to contactor coil, remove the wire from transformer common terminal and connect other end of that wire section after running it from transformer to contactor(run along floor and out a window).
Then, remove the other contactor coil wire and connect one end of 2nd wire section.
Run it along shortest route to the t-stat.
Remove wire from Y-yellow connection on t-stat and connect other end of that wire section.
Turn all power ON and set t-stat to call for cooling.
See if contactor works.
If the deck is ugly and not needed, cut it up and remove.
At 30", it is a MUST to remove OR create a LARGE complete opening above the unit.
I had a customer with same problem and he didn't remove his, but instead replaced a fan motor and two run caps before he moved and left with new owner.
Unit never worked right. He had two units also side by side under there and both were constant problems.
I came into picture right before he moved, but it had been well traveled with repairs prior and during my tenure.
Keep us posted.
Take care and best wishes,
Robert
Some people are Humbly Grateful, while some are Grumbly Hateful.................... Which one are you ?
-
Dean
I went back to test the final leg of the Y wire one last time. The one between the circiuit board and the coil. This time I completely removed it from the contactor as well as the circuit board side. I ohmed it out and it still looked fine. However I thought I would try and run the system one more time just in case.
Well it started! It must have been a dirty contact on the circuit board side. DOH! All that work for nothing, well not really, I've learned a lot about my HVAC system in the process.
I really appreciate your help Robert and hvac 1000.
Now it's time to do something about the deck. It’s in pretty good shape so I don't want to remove it. So I think I'm going to try the steel grate thing and see how that works. Now I just need to find some.
Thanks again
Dean
Well it started! It must have been a dirty contact on the circuit board side. DOH! All that work for nothing, well not really, I've learned a lot about my HVAC system in the process.
I really appreciate your help Robert and hvac 1000.
Now it's time to do something about the deck. It’s in pretty good shape so I don't want to remove it. So I think I'm going to try the steel grate thing and see how that works. Now I just need to find some.
Thanks again
Dean
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Dean
Well I should know better than celebrating too soon. It's out again. This time I pulled the circuit board out completely. R40 looks pretty burnt. That resistor goes to the cc treminal on the board that feeds the yellow wire to the coil. Problem is I can't tell what value it is since half of its ceramic coating is missing. I'm reading about 12 ohms. Looking at in under magnification it appears to be brown black black which means it's a 10 ohm resistor. So a reading of 12 ohms may or may not indicate a problem. The fact that its burnt obviously indicates a problem. Could have been from the constant switching it's been going through for the last who knows how long.
I'm going to replace the resistor tomorrow at work. I'll give it another shot when I get home.
I haven't ruled out the cable yet by no means. It's just going to be a pain to pull the wire through the walls. Although it may not be as bad as I fear and the cable is pretty cheap. So that will probably be my next move when I get the chance. If the resistor doesn't fix it that is.
If anyone can verify that is a 10 ohm resistor that would be great. The size of it would indicate it is at least a 1/2 watt.
Stay tuned.
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