The ever popular frozen pipes question.

elocs · Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:04 pm

Two years ago my pipes froze and one burst because I forgot to plug in my heat tape. I battled the problem last winter as well as continually working on getting the leak fixed. Last fall I succeeded in totally getting the leak fixed and put on new heat tape.

Sunday night the temperature got down to -5 and the water was cold, but still ran freely without any spurting or anything to indicate that it was freezing in the pipes. Monday night it also got down to -5 and I thought I was fine, but when I got up in the morning--no cold water in the kitchen sink or the bathroom sink.

I ran the hot water in the kitchen sink and it did not take long to free it up, so it must have been freezing up somewhere along the line where the hot and cold pipes run together under the house. In the bathroom that did not work with the sink. The odd thing was that the cold water would run in the tub and in the closet in the bedroom on the other side of the bathroom (opposite end of the house from the kitchen) there is a spigot where I am guessing there once was a water softener and the water ran there.

The pit is immediately under the bathroom and it's hard to tell what convoluted way the line runs under the floor. I got under the house and placed a forced air space heater near the water line that goes to the bathroom and it opened up within an hour.

So, what to do, what to do, what to do? The heat tape is new and is working and is covered with insulation. The heat tape extends down into the pit and the pit is also covered with insulation. It must be working to some degree because otherwise it would all have frozen that first night that the temp went down to -5. I would like to have some peace of mind about this since I will be gone for 5 days at Christmastime.

TIA

shadow745 · Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:42 pm

For those that might not know...... there are thermostats available for heat tape/wire use. This automatically turns it on as needed and won't be forgotten. Later!

Brenda (OH) · Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:44 pm

since the time is short to see if your fixes would work, your best bet for peace of mind might be to drain out the water lines and blow compressed air through them before you leave town.

since you are going to go to that extent, how about shutting off the water heater and draining it also in case the power goes off.

hopefully, others will have a better answer.

Brenda (OH)

elocs · Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:41 pm

If it absolutely came to it I could make a tent around the pit area which is the only area where any water pipes are exposed (about the size of a pup tent) and put the space heater in there to keep the temperature above freezing. What is disappointing is that the heat tape is rated at -50 and I meticulously put it on the pipes and wrapped it well with insulation. I've done it that way before and it worked for years.

Greg · Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:57 pm

Hi & welcome. It sounds to me like the heat tape is working correctly since you do heve water in some areas. Unless someone has moved the plumbing the pipes should run near the heat ducts. they are run there to keep them warm with warm air from the ducts.

The problems you are having are usually caused by one of two things. First the underbelly, insulation & skirting MUST be intact. Any holes in the underbelly allow the warm air from the ducts to pour out under the home. Second, in extream cold you need to run the furnace if you use a secondary heat source, If the ducts are cold, so are the pipes. Greg

elocs · Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:45 pm

Greg wrote:Hi & welcome. It sounds to me like the heat tape is working correctly since you do heve water in some areas. Unless someone has moved the plumbing the pipes should run near the heat ducts. they are run there to keep them warm with warm air from the ducts.

The problems you are having are usually caused by one of two things. First the underbelly, insulation & skirting MUST be intact. Any holes in the underbelly allow the warm air from the ducts to pour out under the home. Second, in extream cold you need to run the furnace if you use a secondary heat source, If the ducts are cold, so are the pipes. Greg

Thanks for the welcome, but I have posted here before. When I went to log on today I could not remember my password and I changed my email address last summer so I couldn't get the password that way either.

I have had no furnace since 9/11, the day that my full fuel oil tank tipped over. My fuel oil company promised to bring another tank, but never did so I had to make due with space heaters. They promised again the next summer and again failed to deliver and so I've been using space heaters ever since and like it better than fuel oil and it has never been more expensive (the price of electricity is regulated, fuel oil is not). So in the last 7 years the only time I had problems with my water pipes freezing is when I forgot to plug in my heat tape.

I will make sure my skirting is well sealed and will insulated as well as make an insulated tent around the pit area and pay closer attention to when the temperature drops below zero although it is puzzling how the pipes were fine one night when it got to -5 with a stiff wind, but froze the next night when it was also -5 and the wind was calmer.

Greg · Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:17 pm

The other possible solution may be to run the plumbing above the floors. I have seen some run along the bottom of the wall, this could help some. Greg

elocs · Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:28 pm

Greg wrote:The other possible solution may be to run the plumbing above the floors. I have seen some run along the bottom of the wall, this could help some. Greg

My MH is over 40 years old and is only worth $3000 if even that, so I am going to leave well enough alone and not spend a lot of money and open up a whole potential can of worms. When I had the pipe leak under the house the guy from Ace Hardware suggested that I should replace all of my pipes. I don't see that ever happening. Besides, my MH park is now a valuable piece of real estate and I would not be surprised to get an "everybody out" notice from the owner.

So just as with my leaky pipe I will deal with the frozen pipes as effectively and inexpensively as I can. I know if push comes to shove I can always use a space heater near the pit on nights when the temp gets below zero.

Greg S · Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:48 am

If you are not heating your home via forced air ducting under the floor it will be impossible to guarantee you will not have frozen pipes unless every line located below the floor has heat tape on it.
Because heat rises there is not enough passing down through your floor.
More heat tape or a heat source under your home are the only answers if you are not going to run your furnace.

Yanita · Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:10 pm

Hi,

For those that are using an alternative heat source we recommend that you turn on the blower of your furnace. This draws the air thru the vents and adds a little warmth to your floors and pipes.

Yanita

oldfart · Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:15 am

Well folks to add another thought to this topic, I figgered I might add that during my remodel of my (ca.1970) 12x70 s.w. I ran all new plumbing ABOVE floor level. It makes it easier to access/repair etc. BUT!... there are some downsides. If I ever develop a leak... I'll know it when I come home from work and water is shooting out of the windows. Since I don't travel much and am not usually away from home much... I accept this trade-off. Also, I can use a kerosene heater anytime I'm home. No need to run the furnace as all the lines are above floor level....eh? And no traps below floor level as well. Rest assured this probably wouldn't work for most folks but being a hermit it suits me quite well. One thing one might consider is a timer on the well-control if one has a well. Square-D makes a pressure-switch that only runs "so long" before it cuts the power to the well pump or sets off an alarm to warn the residents of an impending flood. Might be a good investement for those such as myself! Audie..the Oldfart...

elocs · Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:25 am

I made sure that all of my exposed water pipes that already had -50 heat tape and wrapped with insulation was also insulated with a bat of rolled insulation that covered the entry also. Other than a small area under my bathroom floor all of my pipes run along an inside wall. I opened up under the countertops in both the bathroom and the kitchen.

The last few nights the temperature has been -11 to -12 with wind chills of -30 and my pipes have been perfectly fine without even a hint of freezing, so I am confident that with proper attention when it gets super cold that I will be in good shape.