Oh cr*p, toilet problems!

[dedou]

Awesome help, Thanks very much everybody! Of course, life got in the way of my plans to begin today as we got a call early this morning and my Mom had fallen - again. But I will be sure to post photos of the repair in the hopes that it may help someone else. Like the stairs, it may take this newbie a few days, but we'll get it done.
Really appreciate all the good tips

[dedou]

Well now I need to ask you all if I can use a 12" rough-in toilet in a 16" rough in measurement! We were going to buy a new inexpensive toilet today, and the salesperson at H.D. asked me what our rough-in measurement was. I remember reading that term somewhere (Mark's book?), but forgot to follow up further. The measurement from our wallboard (not the molding, it's already taken off) to the middle of the toilet bolts (and thereby, from what I'm reading, to approx. the center of our drain) is 16 inches.
We saw 10" rough-in toilets and 12" ones, but not 16's. I also read that sometimes drains were placed incorrectly or a joist may be in the way, making the measurement bigger.
Question is, what do I do now? Would it be a good idea to go with the 12" rough-in measurement and use some sort of support behind the toilet tank, which currently stands about 6" from the wall?
On the plus side, I picked up a steel braided hose for the water, some extra nails and a wax seal on the taller side. Sure glad I didn't pull the toilet before we went shopping

[ponch37300]

So your old toilet sits 6" off the wall?

You have a couple of choices here. One is to build a wall out from the currant wall, either all the way up or just 3' or so and cap it off and set stuff on top. Other option is to use an offset flange, http://www.lowes.com/pd_253225-138-4354 ... agpspn=pla. This will move the flange back 2" and allow you to use a 14" rough in toilet like this, http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... ci_gpa=pla. Now this is only possible if the floor joists allow you to. Which is something you will find out when you tear the old rotten floor out. My choice since you are going to be tearing the floor out and I recomend installing a new flange is to go with the offset and use a 14" rough in toilet.

[dedou]

Hi Ponch,
I had spent way too much time last night and again this evening trying to decide what to do, toilet wise. I had pretty much decided on bringing the wall out to meet the toilet and getting this model: http://www.homedepot.com/Bath-Toilets-T ... Dq9hM2Kwll
This toilet has the same rough dimensions as the Eljer we currently have, and we like that higher seat. The reviews are very favorable for this model as well. I'm going to find out tomorrow if the joists are rotten as well, but we may be lucky, as the floor isn't yet spongy under the toilet, just soaked. We zipped a hole in the wall next to the toilet that houses the shower/tub plumbing today, and that is all ok. I was worried that the wet area that extended from the toilet towards the tub was coming from the tub, but the floor is actually level there, so we're thinking it's just spread. I'm still going to build a door to access that area so we can keep an eye on it.

We weren't planning on spending even this much on a toilet, so I'm using some 3/4" plywood leftover from the laundry area repair (have a partial sheet that will fill that area without any seam instead of the Advantec, and when we put down the vinyl, I'm planning on keeping a bit of a lip of vinyl going up the wall wherever there's molding along the floor to help keep water out. Also, I am planning on building a wall storage cabinet on the wall behind the toilet, so this will give me some more support for that, as the studs are pretty far apart on that wall.

OK, I also need to ask you to make something clearer for me if you would? I understand that the floor would be stronger left in one piece, but what is the way I tell where the plumbing drain is once I put down that ply? I can't wrap my head around that one, and sometimes when someone puts it in a different way, it becomes clear to me.
Thanks again, really appreciate all the help.

[dedou]

Oops, forgot to answer your question - yes, the toilet is sitting 6" from the wall.

[Greg]

Since you are going to have the floor open you can always move the pipes with out much problem. It's just a matter of a few new fittings and cutting & gluing.

Greg

[HouseMedic]

I have just installed two of those toilets and both are working fine. They actually fit in a 11 1/2" rough in area which helped me because one that I installed is in a 50 year old house and the wall tile comes out a ways and only leaves me about 11 3/4" so it worked great. If the toilet does not get in your way where it is now I would just leave it where it is. If you need it to move back to get it out of your way then now would be the time to move the plumbing. A toilet if installed on a sound floor and correct should support itself. It does not touch the wall.

Ron

[dedou]

toiletflange3.jpg

toiletflange1.jpg

toiletflange2.jpg

OK, I'm back. We opened up the floor today after getting our flooring this morning so I could put it down before the toilet. We didn't get that far. The whole thing was incredibly cobbled together with bits and pieces of this and that. I can't put 2x4's on end to use to box things in because they will stick up above the floor level, so need to put the plywood down in one piece. That leads directly to the problem of the white coupling and flange being glued on and me not sure there's enough of the black ABS toilet pipe under them so I can glue on a new - what? Piece of pipe, coupling ? There is only an 1 and 7/8" from the bottom of that white pipe fitting to the top of the horizontal part of the black pipe. I've been looking at some flange repair videos on YouTube, and now I know that the straight pipe that the white coupling is glued to is female/female, and so probably 4" diameter. Is the white part part of the flange?
Then I put the ply down and put the flange down on top of that? It's the pipe, coupling (or no coupling) and flange part I'm not getting in this case. It's not clear either in other posts I've looked at and in Mark's book whether or not the (extra pipe piece? coupling of some sort?) thing goes INSIDE the black sewer pipe or OUTSIDE the pipe. I'm guessing Outside, as the white coupling that is holding the flange is on the outside of our pipe?

So when I get that all taken care of, there's the matter of no room for 2x4's to box things in for strength. I would like to add some if possible, and see they had laid some on their wide sides. I thought that wasn't as strong as using 2x4's on their short sides, but if I throw a few in there where the piping for the inlet is and under where the toilet sits, will it add at least a bit of support? Or should I do something else?

Then there's the mess under the green board wall to the left of the toilet. I was thinking I'd carefully (there's a switch up there for the light) snap a line and cut away a few inches up from the bottom and clean it out, put the plywood under there and sister things back to the existing wall studs from there. Does this sound like a good plan?

I was discouraged when we opened up the floor, but at least what they left of the joists are not rotten, so that is good. And I'm stubborn, so I WILL see this project through to a satisfying end… or else Thanks for all the help!!!
(And is it ever helpful to have a sister with two bathrooms who is you next door neighbor!)

[HouseMedic]

It is hard to tell from the picture but can you see if the black pipe is part of the "T" or "Y" that goes into the horizontal pipe or is it regular pipe? If the black pipe under the white toilet flange is a regular piece of pipe coming out of the "T" then you should have enough pipe left with a good cut to connect a new coupler to the black pipe and then use a toilet flange that goes inside the coupler instead of outside when you glue it together. I would get the pieces before I cut anything and put them together without gluing and see how you will make out with the height. You might even have to put a small straight piece between the coupler and the toilet flange to make up for the height that you need. Buy different connection pieces that you think might work and take back the ones you don't need. You could also try to cut just the white part of the flange piece and split the piece so it would come off. I have done this before with 2" pipe and was lucky it cleaned up well and I was able to glue on a new piece. That way you could remove the old toilet flange a replace the plywood and then replace a new toilet flange on the pipe.
After you do get the floor back together make sure to screw the toilet flange down to the floor with at least five screws to keep the toilet from rocking.
Ron