Yanita,
I will check out that link about water freezing, thank you.
I do have heat tape on that short distance of pipe from the ground to the underbelly.
It was my choice to shut the running faucet off....but it sounds like frozen sewer pipes are more serious than frozen hot water lines... and what I should have done is to go under this mobile home before winter and see what was under there. Find any problems and try to fix them before winter.
When I asked the previous owner about how she managed in the winter she said "the water lines froze once last winter....but that's because I didn't leave the water running..." But I think now, because of Mark's book and the posts on this site, if you keep your mobile home in good condition....(the underbelly and skirting and heat tape and insulation) you shouldn't have to worry about anything freezing anyway.
I was afraid to go under my mobile home to look at what was under there. (Snakes, mice, spiders.....who knows what all.....seriously, what woman wants to do that?) So, I don't know what I have going on under there. Yet.
Frozen water lines....my fix
Moderators: Greg, Mark, mhrAJ333, JD
-
Dean2
Ok,I know it is against policy to recommend letting the water drip and letting hot water drip could get costly over a long term.
I have to ask tho,have You let it drip during extreme cold before? Did the drain/sewer lines freeze then?
I just don't see how,in the *average* case,an above ground drain line could be more costly/pain to fix than a burst pipe. I suppose it could be difficult to find the frozen spot in a drain run.
Maybe,since I have never had to fix an under-home drain run,I've only installed a short one,I haven't been properly exposed to the PITA it can be.
Questions for Plumbers; Is ice in a drain freeze more likely to spread(path of least resistance)through the 4"-6" pipe or to expand and burst the pipe? How rare is it compared to frozen feed lines?
Such a simple thing as this and I find it has captured Me! LOL.
Dean
I have to ask tho,have You let it drip during extreme cold before? Did the drain/sewer lines freeze then?
I just don't see how,in the *average* case,an above ground drain line could be more costly/pain to fix than a burst pipe. I suppose it could be difficult to find the frozen spot in a drain run.
Maybe,since I have never had to fix an under-home drain run,I've only installed a short one,I haven't been properly exposed to the PITA it can be.
Questions for Plumbers; Is ice in a drain freeze more likely to spread(path of least resistance)through the 4"-6" pipe or to expand and burst the pipe? How rare is it compared to frozen feed lines?
Such a simple thing as this and I find it has captured Me! LOL.
Dean
Hi Dean,
Let me see if I can explain this...
When the water drips from the faucet it is not making a full stream, something that will drain quickly...rather just a slow drip, like candle wax melting and running down the side of the candle. It eventually starts to build up and therefore will/can freeze your waste line. As the water begins to freeze the next few drops will not pass and therefore it can plug the drain.
Rarity, not as rare as one might think. We live in NC and my Hubby has helped out a few friends at least a couple times a year with this problem...
Hope this helps some...
Yanita
Let me see if I can explain this...
When the water drips from the faucet it is not making a full stream, something that will drain quickly...rather just a slow drip, like candle wax melting and running down the side of the candle. It eventually starts to build up and therefore will/can freeze your waste line. As the water begins to freeze the next few drops will not pass and therefore it can plug the drain.
Rarity, not as rare as one might think. We live in NC and my Hubby has helped out a few friends at least a couple times a year with this problem...
Hope this helps some...
Yanita
The difference between success and failure is who gives up first!
-
Dean2
Yanita,Hi.
Sure as shootin I understood the concept of how it could freeze under just the right(or wrong)conditions,NP there.
The non-rarity thing tho I didn't expect,TY..I woulda thought it would be rare indeed for all the needed criteria to come together,all at once,to freeze a drain pipe of 4"-6",apparently not.
It helps a bunch.
I hope I do too.
Dean
PS-When I set My 14x70 I didn't want the west end to be too much higher than the east,as grade would have dictated,so I left the west down a bit,out of perfect level lengthwise,I'm sure this helps the drain pipe as it flows west. The few degrees doesn't bother in the slightest and the frame is chained down snug to the piers,NPs yet.
Sure as shootin I understood the concept of how it could freeze under just the right(or wrong)conditions,NP there.
The non-rarity thing tho I didn't expect,TY..I woulda thought it would be rare indeed for all the needed criteria to come together,all at once,to freeze a drain pipe of 4"-6",apparently not.
It helps a bunch.
I hope I do too.Dean
PS-When I set My 14x70 I didn't want the west end to be too much higher than the east,as grade would have dictated,so I left the west down a bit,out of perfect level lengthwise,I'm sure this helps the drain pipe as it flows west. The few degrees doesn't bother in the slightest and the frame is chained down snug to the piers,NPs yet.
Hi Dean,
LOL, NP here either.
It is great conversations such as this one that helps others that do not understand the reasons why we say what we say at times.
Again, it is one of those things that works for some and not others, therefore we do not recommend it.
I completely understand what a difference a few degrees can be in the pitch of the main drain line as well. We typically get alot of rain in the fall. Well in my singlewide to much rain surely meant that the main sewer line was going change pitch and back ups where sure to happen...without fail.
Yanita
LOL, NP here either.
It is great conversations such as this one that helps others that do not understand the reasons why we say what we say at times.
Again, it is one of those things that works for some and not others, therefore we do not recommend it.
I completely understand what a difference a few degrees can be in the pitch of the main drain line as well. We typically get alot of rain in the fall. Well in my singlewide to much rain surely meant that the main sewer line was going change pitch and back ups where sure to happen...without fail.
Yanita
The difference between success and failure is who gives up first!
Lets not forget people about your hotwater tank too. Its good to go buy one of those hot water tank blankets so you won't have a major desaster if the tank bursts. Those things can really causea major repair & too fun replacing one in the cold weather.
I am a certified ford diesel tech, "Retired Now" Ford Parts Department counter man, computer consultant, repairman & programmer
And in response to Dean2
"I have to ask tho,have You let it drip during extreme cold before? Did the drain/sewer lines freeze then?"
This is my first winter in this mobile home.
The previous owner said she let the water trickle, and that she did have frozen water lines last winter, but only because she did not leave the water running....
And did the drain/sewer lines freeze because of her leaving the water running when it was really cold like that?
I don't know.
She didn't say anything about any frozen drain/sewer lines, she just said that the sewer lines were the parks responsibility....which turns out not to be correct.....
But then again, when I first looked at this place? She was in a financial pinch, thought her nephew was going to buy it for cash, she wrote a 600 dollar check for car repairs, nephew backed out...I looked at it, gave her 600 down....and the day I came to pick up the keys and sign a "for sale - as is" kind of thing?
She dropped the price by 500 dollars and admitted that the bathtub (that she had told me was fine) would need replacing immediately....and when she said she would leave this coat rack thingy sitting at the end of the kitchen cabinets (which I did not want) she said that it is covering the missing end of the cabinets.... yes....and she told me about the couple of bad spots (holes) in the particle board in the hallway, but never bothered to mentioned the two holes in the bathroom floor, the bad floors underneath the livingroom windows where the ac window unit is....or the bad floor in the front bedroom....or all the other things that I have discovered since buying this place that need fixing.
The only thing she was honest about was that the roof doesn't leak. (Now. It sure as heck did in the past.)
So......even if I was to call her and ask her about leaving the water running in the worst of our winters....and did it lead to frozen sewer lines? Well.........how much stock would you put into whatever her answer was?
I think, I'm on my own here.
All I want to know is if I can put heat tape on these pex lines. I have cold water, but no hot water. The heat tape seems to be working just fine on the water line where it comes in to this mobile home....and hot water heater seems to be working.....but I need to thaw the hot water pex lines and prevent it from happening again....and I don't know what to do. Sherry
"I have to ask tho,have You let it drip during extreme cold before? Did the drain/sewer lines freeze then?"
This is my first winter in this mobile home.
The previous owner said she let the water trickle, and that she did have frozen water lines last winter, but only because she did not leave the water running....
And did the drain/sewer lines freeze because of her leaving the water running when it was really cold like that?
I don't know.
She didn't say anything about any frozen drain/sewer lines, she just said that the sewer lines were the parks responsibility....which turns out not to be correct.....
But then again, when I first looked at this place? She was in a financial pinch, thought her nephew was going to buy it for cash, she wrote a 600 dollar check for car repairs, nephew backed out...I looked at it, gave her 600 down....and the day I came to pick up the keys and sign a "for sale - as is" kind of thing?
She dropped the price by 500 dollars and admitted that the bathtub (that she had told me was fine) would need replacing immediately....and when she said she would leave this coat rack thingy sitting at the end of the kitchen cabinets (which I did not want) she said that it is covering the missing end of the cabinets.... yes....and she told me about the couple of bad spots (holes) in the particle board in the hallway, but never bothered to mentioned the two holes in the bathroom floor, the bad floors underneath the livingroom windows where the ac window unit is....or the bad floor in the front bedroom....or all the other things that I have discovered since buying this place that need fixing.
The only thing she was honest about was that the roof doesn't leak. (Now. It sure as heck did in the past.)
So......even if I was to call her and ask her about leaving the water running in the worst of our winters....and did it lead to frozen sewer lines? Well.........how much stock would you put into whatever her answer was?
I think, I'm on my own here.
All I want to know is if I can put heat tape on these pex lines. I have cold water, but no hot water. The heat tape seems to be working just fine on the water line where it comes in to this mobile home....and hot water heater seems to be working.....but I need to thaw the hot water pex lines and prevent it from happening again....and I don't know what to do. Sherry
Hi Sherry! I haven't left my water running in the 4 years I lived here and have had no freeze-ups thus far. I live in Northern British Columbia, Canada a couple hundred miles from Alaska border and it gets really cold here in winter. at the moment we are at -33 Celsius with the wind chill. It has been -20 to -30 Celsius for about 2 weeks now. Anyway to get to the point, my set -up consists of copper main water lines wrapped with a thermostatically controlled heat tape then wrapped in fiberglass insulation and electrical tape to hold it in place . I have skirting made of 2x4's and plywood with 6 inch fiberglass wrapped in poly plastic installed tight and snug against inside of skirting frame. my 4 skirting vents are closed and my outside garden hose line is disconnected and drained. The door to my water heater was removed so there is constant heat going to it. my gas heat runs at 70 degrees F minimum to keep it warm under floor. all holes or penetrations in skirting have been filled with foam to stop cold drafts from entering under home. Have had lots of neighbours with frozen pipes asking me what I have been doing. Some have even paid me to go under their homes and winter proof for them. all precautions we can take will pay off in the long run. just my 2 cents. troyster
-
Dean2
Is PEX freeze-break resistant?
PEX piping is freeze damage resistant and can expand and contract as water freezes and thaws within the tubing. No tubing material is freeze-break proof, however, and PEX should be installed using the same locally-prescribed insulation requirements to prevent freezing of any plumbing system.
How do I thaw PEX lines?
When water freezes inside PEX tubing, it can be thawed using a hair dryer, warm wet rags or heat tape, taking care not to overheat the tubing beyond the maximum recommended temperature.
The above came from;
http://www.ppfahome.org/pex/faqpex.html
PEX piping is freeze damage resistant and can expand and contract as water freezes and thaws within the tubing. No tubing material is freeze-break proof, however, and PEX should be installed using the same locally-prescribed insulation requirements to prevent freezing of any plumbing system.
How do I thaw PEX lines?
When water freezes inside PEX tubing, it can be thawed using a hair dryer, warm wet rags or heat tape, taking care not to overheat the tubing beyond the maximum recommended temperature.
The above came from;
http://www.ppfahome.org/pex/faqpex.html
Thank you for the information - and the link to the site about pex...I searched on the internet but did not come up with much - that site actually tells you the maximum heat temp pex could safely withstand. And, how to thaw a pex line.
Wish I had been as prepared for winter as Canada (a previous post)....I'd be sitting back sipping hot chocolate and singing "let it snow...." Sounds like freeze proof doesn't get much better than what he has done!
Wish I had been as prepared for winter as Canada (a previous post)....I'd be sitting back sipping hot chocolate and singing "let it snow...." Sounds like freeze proof doesn't get much better than what he has done!
Hi Sherry,
Yup, preventive maintenance makes all the difference. Everything that Troyster mentioned can be found here on site. Take a look through the Articles link.
The skirting technique mentioned, well there is another version of it in the articles.
Whatever heat tape you apply make sure to follow manufacturers instructions. Do yourself a favor and spend a little more and get one that is thermostatically controlled.
Ohh, and Dean... Do I let my water drip? Nope never! Again preventative maintenance, and, LOL, my Hubby is a commercial/industrial plumber!
Yanita
Yup, preventive maintenance makes all the difference. Everything that Troyster mentioned can be found here on site. Take a look through the Articles link.
The skirting technique mentioned, well there is another version of it in the articles.
Whatever heat tape you apply make sure to follow manufacturers instructions. Do yourself a favor and spend a little more and get one that is thermostatically controlled.
Ohh, and Dean... Do I let my water drip? Nope never! Again preventative maintenance, and, LOL, my Hubby is a commercial/industrial plumber!
Yanita
The difference between success and failure is who gives up first!
-
Dean2
LOL,,ok. Too bad Ya can't snag his hinder and drag Him to the PC to start a plumbing section.I'm 1/2way across the country so I can safely volunteer Him! Heh heh.
My Sis has owned Her mobile for 20 years and she said She lets em drip in bath and kit and never a drain freeze. I replaced much of Her skirting to no avail,the feeds still freeze. I should crawl under there(it is NASTY)and redo the main feed like i did Mine. My nephew won't do jack-s#i% for Her. She does have thawing the lines down to a science tho!
She puts a small elec heater in the bath sink vanity along with a fan(on low) to force the warm air thru,then uses another fan at the kit sink to draw the air,She claims the draw fan was My idea but i don't remember having it!
She is a jewel and I should just bite the bullet and spend a day under there cleaning and fixing.
Yep,Troyster in Canada got it goin on! I thought on a system like that too but I'm a cheapo and didn't want to heat that extra cubic feet of space,sure would make for warmer floors when it is -20F and windy tho! In My case the extra cubic feet would be near 2500,14x70x2.5(avereage),or,about 25% added to the cubic feet of the entire place. Oh well,this way I can drink a few more good hearty dark beers and the occasional pepperminnt schnapps to warm My toes. hiccup,:)
My Sis has owned Her mobile for 20 years and she said She lets em drip in bath and kit and never a drain freeze. I replaced much of Her skirting to no avail,the feeds still freeze. I should crawl under there(it is NASTY)and redo the main feed like i did Mine. My nephew won't do jack-s#i% for Her. She does have thawing the lines down to a science tho!
She puts a small elec heater in the bath sink vanity along with a fan(on low) to force the warm air thru,then uses another fan at the kit sink to draw the air,She claims the draw fan was My idea but i don't remember having it!
She is a jewel and I should just bite the bullet and spend a day under there cleaning and fixing.
Yep,Troyster in Canada got it goin on! I thought on a system like that too but I'm a cheapo and didn't want to heat that extra cubic feet of space,sure would make for warmer floors when it is -20F and windy tho! In My case the extra cubic feet would be near 2500,14x70x2.5(avereage),or,about 25% added to the cubic feet of the entire place. Oh well,this way I can drink a few more good hearty dark beers and the occasional pepperminnt schnapps to warm My toes. hiccup,:)
Okay. Bought a 30 foot heat tape, some fiberglass insulation wrap, tape, a good extension cord....have a good Craftsman halogen worklight....and tomorrow the plan is to go under the mobile home....
Daughter's boyfriend is hauling a load of something from somewhere to somewhere and said he thought he would be back here by noon tomorrow and he would go under there with me.
I plan to remember to put my digital camera in my coat pocket so I can snap a picture or two, much like when you visit a foreign place you take pictures, as you know you won't see it again soon...
The belly of the beast. That's how I think of it.....and, then again, maybe it won't be that terrible?
I just want hot water. I wouldn't have made a good pioneer. How did people live without running water? Well, I have cold water running....
Which reminds me, if the hot and cold pex lines are running side by side....could I wrap the heat tape around both of them? As in hold the hot and cold line together and wrap them both up? Or should I just put the heat tape on the frozen pex hot water line?
Well, I'm going to try to find something on tv to take my mind off of freezing to death if the batteries go out in my thermostat....ha ha, wish I would have read that post before I went to Wally World tonight.... Sherry
Daughter's boyfriend is hauling a load of something from somewhere to somewhere and said he thought he would be back here by noon tomorrow and he would go under there with me.
I plan to remember to put my digital camera in my coat pocket so I can snap a picture or two, much like when you visit a foreign place you take pictures, as you know you won't see it again soon...
The belly of the beast. That's how I think of it.....and, then again, maybe it won't be that terrible?
I just want hot water. I wouldn't have made a good pioneer. How did people live without running water? Well, I have cold water running....
Which reminds me, if the hot and cold pex lines are running side by side....could I wrap the heat tape around both of them? As in hold the hot and cold line together and wrap them both up? Or should I just put the heat tape on the frozen pex hot water line?
Well, I'm going to try to find something on tv to take my mind off of freezing to death if the batteries go out in my thermostat....ha ha, wish I would have read that post before I went to Wally World tonight....
Sherry-
Dean2
Oh sherry!! Yer such a brave and wonderous soul! I doubt You have too much to worry about unless a Wolverine has moved in Most colder climates don't have too many deadly spiders and such.
The Native Americans boiled water in skin pouches over a fire,if circumstances were similar I bet dollars-to-donuts You could do the same dang thing.
I would think yes,You can wrap it around both if they are close.I think the main thing with heat tape is DO NOT let the heat tape overlap its self EVER! Doing so could cause it to overheat and FIRE!
It may take a few tries to get the spirals the correct spacing for the tape to go the distance You want,that's just normal.Be patient and redo as needed. I used a bit of duct tape to hold it every so many spirals so I could move the operation downline without losing what was done.
We don't expect a reply on Yer progress too soon,,,We know that HOT bath is gonna relax Ya to the point of a good looooong nap afterwards!
;Dean
Most colder climates don't have too many deadly spiders and such.The Native Americans boiled water in skin pouches over a fire,if circumstances were similar I bet dollars-to-donuts You could do the same dang thing.
I would think yes,You can wrap it around both if they are close.I think the main thing with heat tape is DO NOT let the heat tape overlap its self EVER! Doing so could cause it to overheat and FIRE!
It may take a few tries to get the spirals the correct spacing for the tape to go the distance You want,that's just normal.Be patient and redo as needed. I used a bit of duct tape to hold it every so many spirals so I could move the operation downline without losing what was done.
We don't expect a reply on Yer progress too soon,,,We know that HOT bath is gonna relax Ya to the point of a good looooong nap afterwards!
;Dean
-
Dean2
Amendment; Wrapping both means that in the event of some kind of problem down the road,You would have to unwrap both to fix the problem line. IMO You can still do it,I think I would if they were VERY CLOSE to each other. Just don't let the heat tape touch or overlap its self,,,I can't stress that enough.
With luck the extension cord is rated higher than needed,,and,,it plugs into an easilly accessible place.
With luck the extension cord is rated higher than needed,,and,,it plugs into an easilly accessible place.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 2 Replies
- 22307 Views
-
Last post by mdnagel
Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:36 pm
-
- 1 Replies
- 21666 Views
-
Last post by Greg
Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:57 pm
-
-
Relocating bathroom water lines and sink drains in wall
by mdnagel » Thu Feb 17, 2022 2:05 pm » in Mobile Home Repair - 2 Replies
- 31895 Views
-
Last post by mdnagel
Fri Feb 18, 2022 2:03 pm
-
-
- 1 Replies
- 1853 Views
-
Last post by Greg
Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:23 pm
-
- 6 Replies
- 48996 Views
-
Last post by stevieb
Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:50 am