Minor/Major plumbing issues

Jaie · Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:32 pm

Minor because I'm pretty sure I have them figured out. Major, because I'm pretty sure I don't have them figured out. I'm sure many of you know this sensation.

I've posted most of this issue in my lovely new blog (ok, seriously, one of the reasons I love the new forum layout, I don't have to bore my LJ friends with trailer posts) so feel free to read that when responding.

I have a 1977 single wide of unknown make and model (any clue how to find this BTW? It's always bugged me) and I've had plumbing problems since buying it, but nothing major. Always knew I'd have to replace it, but was holding it off.

This year made that impossible. I live in Oswego NY. You may have seen us on CNN for our snow this year. We also had weather of 20 and 25 below. I had inside pipes burst. Inside pipes mind you, in a half bath that isn't used. Now, I've solved the inside plumbing thanks to some research, and I'm going to get color coded PEX, but what do I put underneath the trailer? PEX? PVC? What? Anyone?

I know HUD laws are out there on this, and what I can tell PEX can't be under floors. BUT since PEX is used on radiant heating, that seems illogical. So, I'm confused as all get out.

I await the answers with crimpers and a utility knife.

JD · Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:00 pm

Hi Jaie,

Just go for it and enjoy your new plumbing. PEx is fine inside your floor joists. I would run it above the insulation for thermal protection. PEx is not for exterior use, meaning exposed. All of your house plumbing should be within the insulation and belly wrap.

I am not a freezing weather repairman. Where I live the temps rarely get below 28 degrees, and that would be for just a very few hours in a day. But if you are talking about plumbing to a hose bib or something like that, maybe you could run PEx to that area and then drop down with galv and heat tape? I dunno. I am sure a cold weather plumber will have good advice.

PEx is your best bet, but I would be curious to know how it held up through all of that extreme freezing. I would imagine pretty good, but I haven't heard any bad reports.

JD

Maureen · Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:44 pm

Hi Jaie!

We've got plenty of cold weather, or freezing temp weather folks that have installed PEX in their homes.

From what I understand is that you run the PEX right next to your existing water lines. I believe Mark has an article about PEX under the article or newsletter link.

Hang in there, maybe some one that has done this will chime in!

Maureen

Robert · Thu Mar 15, 2007 10:57 pm

Yep, blow out old lines so no water leaks out ends. Cut out and let 'em lay there.

Then run the Pex right beside it. It holds up well to freezing temps and inside the belly with the duct heat transfer, really no problems.

It can not be exposed to sunlight for prolonged periods is main reason for not having it installed outside.

Cut small slits in underbelly every 5-8 ft. or so to reach in and guide it along.

You can get rolls, straighten out and leave that way with something holding it straight to get it to remain sort of straight.

Easy to guide and then can easily be curved up into home to avoid joints or fewer joints.

I use copper crimp rings and definately use the go/no go guage.

Take care and best wishes,
Robert

Jaie · Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:19 pm

Ok. All of this makes sense so far. I'm thinking however that all the old, badly installed original is coming right out. And I'll start fresh. Make sense? It's pretty bad under there.

Robert · Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:33 pm

Hi,

If the old piping is easily removed then it is best to remove.

It can though be drained and left in underbelly if hard to remove.

Take care and best wishes,
Robert

Greg · Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:41 pm

Jaie, Since I live around the corner from you in Weedsport, I can assure that PEX is the way to go. It is very forgiving, I won't say freeze proof, but one step from it. Lowes has everything you should need. Remember to add shutoff valves when you do the work. Greg

Jaie · Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:02 pm

Greg wrote:Jaie, Since I live around the corner from you in Weedsport, I can assure that PEX is the way to go. It is very forgiving, I won't say freeze proof, but one step from it. Lowes has everything you should need. Remember to add shutoff valves when you do the work. Greg

Oh boy! Do I hear you about the shut offs. There is not ONE shut off in this place. NONE. It drives me nuts. I plan on a shut off valve on every darn pipe trust me. But good to know another local is not only up here but has used this PEX

Maureen · Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:42 pm

Hi Jaie,

Shut offs are very important! One of the first things that was done here! I've still got the wet bar to do finish, but that's only used once a year. All other fixtures have separate shutouts!

Maureen

Robert · Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:15 am

Hi Jaie,

Just wanted to add, best to get 1/4 turn ball valve type shut offs.

Take care and best wishes,
Robert

Jaie · Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:32 pm

Thanks to everyone, you cleared up my mind a lot. So once this snow melts (gee, new storm has made that a few weeks off) , I'll be under the trailer with the boy trying to get this mess cleaned up and taking out the old pipes and putting in fresh spleet new PEX and running it up under the trailer as far as possible. Close to the heat ducts doesn't matter as we don't run a furnace here

Well protected is all I care for with the new piping.

And trying to rope local friends into trying to help

Greg · Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:05 pm

You may want to run the furnace when it starts getting below 0, just to keep the pipes warm. We use a Monitor kerosene heater that is easily able to keep the place warm, but we de run into water freeze up if the furnace is off. The other option is to run the lines above the floor. Greg

Jaie · Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:11 am

Greg wrote:You may want to fun the furnace when it starts getting below 0, Greg

There is no furnace to run however. None. We keep warm here with a combo of electric and kero. The one thing we've worked on since day one is putting in electric panels, but every time we go to do so, something eats that budget. Now that the plumbing isn't as bad as I thought, it may be they'll get put in this year.

And yes, I'm aware of the downfalls of electric, however my choice is made after a lot of research into what my needs are here. (it seems everytime I say electric everyone starts bickering and arguing over it)

I will be putting the px at th e highest point under the trailer under the beams using some clamps to attach it to the beams. The stuff under there (PVC and polybutane) is all over in several spots, with no rhyme or reason laying on the ground. Which is half the issue with freezing. Although this year was the first it did it like this.The past 4 years have been pretty freeze free.

Yanita · Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:23 am

Hi,

Unless I misread or misunderstand what you are saying your water lines do not get attached to the I beams. Place the pex up under the insulation, typically running between the floor joist that the heat duct is in.

Put the insulation back into place, secure the belly material and then make sure your skirting is put together snugly. All this will help keep your water lines warm.

~Yanita~

Greg · Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:18 pm

Jaie, As Yanita said, the plumbing should be above the belly insulation just under the floor. As strang as it may sound, all the snow you get MAY have helped prevent freezeups by blocking the cold from getting under the home. As for the electricity, just run a cord over to the nuke plant, they won't mind too much! Greg