"Cathedral ceiling" is trapping really hot air

[WildIrish]

Your problem seems to be large poorly insulated windows.
To fix that you either need to increase the conditioned air to the room (probably difficult and costly), or decrease the heat gained through the windows (much easier).

Your best bet will be to either put solar screens to block the sun but keep the view, or have some shade awnings put over the windows to stop the sun altogether.

Thanks for the tips! I wanted to get some solar curtains (which reflect the light/heat back outdoors), but they're so narrow, that it would've cost a fortune for me to get enough to cover all these windows. So I got some of those emergency blankets--made of a soft foil, which are much larger, and similarly reflect. I've put those on the west windows; we can still see outside, but the sun doesn't bake our living room nearly as much as before.

Also, we discovered some large roll-up exterior shades that the previous owners had left behind--in the crawlspace instead of the garage (go figure). We had a heck of a time, but we managed to get those hung up. Now, on every sunny afternoon, I roll those down.

Though it still gets warmer in the living room than it does back here, at least it's not as horrid as it used to be.

Don't worry, Audie...you helped explain to me what was going on, so your postings were definitely not in vain.

[Harry]

Hi WildIrish

We have a similar hot air issue like yours. We require ac in the summer but we enjoy the hot air in the winter. We set the thermostat to 80. We have ceiling fans throughout. Blow air down in the summer and blow air up in the winter....for the best air circulation.

I found our attic space was hardly vented at all. While this sealed attic space might be good in some areas ... it is a bad idea where I live....especially because it made the attic a "moisture maker". The trapped air was really hot in the summer. I replaced the roof and eave soffitt with perforated aluminum. When the rotting roof was replaced 4 roof vents were added. Now our ceiling does not radiate as much heat. We're in the high 90s now.

I'd be interested in any improvements you find.

Harry

[steve]

If you installed skylite in LR with motor your problem would be solved letting out heat.
Install solar screens on window and reduce UV by 75%, Remove screens in winter to obtain solar gain. If you buy a good skylite (Vellux)
they have all controls and are Argon gas filled, insulated glass with Low E (reflect winter heat in and summer heat out)

[oldfart]

Well Irish it seems neccessity is the mother of invention yet again..eh! An excellent idea using the "emergency blankets" to give ye some relief!! I tip my hat to you!! Now although I didn't come up with the idea of skylights I do applaud those that did! And those that work via thermostat should work excellent!! It may be an investement that would pay great dividends in the long haul. That's why I love this website!! So many ways to skin-a-cat!!!! Audie..the Oldfart!!

[WildIrish]

@ Harry:
The ceiling fan here isn't very good. So we used to use one of our air circulator fans to blow cooler air up into the peak of the ceiling. But the air at the top is so hot, that it just makes the A/C work harder to cool it when it comes down.

Our attic space (over the rest of the house) is well-vented, which I hope is a good thing for our climate...or else we're in trouble, LOL!


@Steve:
Thanks for the suggestions...maybe when our budget allows for such a thing, we can give it a try!


@oldfart:
Yep, necessity is indeed the mother of invention. Tight budgets have always forced me to find different ways of doing things.

[warren49]

I am a little late getting into this discussion, but I wanted to chime in anyway. Our home has 6 floor to ceiling windows in the front, opening to our living room that has a cathedral ceiling (1982 Madison). On top of that, the windows face south and we live in central California where summer temps are normally around 100 every day during the summer months. It was 112 just week or two back.

We purchased it with the original dual pane windows with metal frames. Two summers ago (our first summer here), we had 5 straight days of 110 or greater and it was impossible to keep the room temp below the mid 80s. Our air conditioning did not shut off for 8+ hours straight every one of those hot days (you can imagine the bill!!!).

The first thing we tried was custom window screens, which really helped (they were the type that blocked 90+% of the sunlight). However, because of the metal window frames, there was still an excessive amount of heat transferred to the inside....because the window frames would be too hot to touch. Also, the "weep" holes in the frames allowed a significant amount of air to pass through.

We bit the bullet and ordered vinyl framed, dual pane windows with argon gas in the airtight space between the windows. As a backup, we knew we still had the sun blocking screens if necessary.

This summer, as I mentioned, we have experienced 112 at least once, and several days of over 105. The vinyl frames produce virtually no heat. I can stand next to the windows when the sun is directly on them and I hardly notice the heat. The difference is dramatic and we have not installed the sun blocking screens.

Let me be honest....this is a very expensive method of fixing the problem. However, if you can afford it, installing quality windows and frames will make a dramatic difference.

Short of window replacement, it is important that you block the sun, preferrably from the outside. Then block it from the inside. I would also suggest a small fan next to the windows, on one end, so the air flow is across the windows. This mixes the hotter air with the cooler air (if it also aimed up to some degree, the air at the top of the room with get mixed too.

My theory is that you must prevent the room from heating in the first place (by blocking as much daylight as possible, starting from the outside), then keep the air moving on the inside (eliminating dead spots like corners or the peak of your ceiling). On the inside, good quality window coverings would be a good idea too (we installed dark, wood venetian blinds). Once the air is too hot, it is almost impossible to catch up.

I know this is a long response, but I wanted to let you know that my experience is similar.

I

[WildIrish]

I am a little late getting into this discussion, but I wanted to chime in anyway.

Better late than never, I always say.

Our home has 6 floor to ceiling windows in the front, opening to our living room that has a cathedral ceiling (1982 Madison).

Floor-to-ceiling windows? Where do you put your furniture? We're having a hard enough time arranging furniture in the room that we have....

On top of that, the windows face south and we live in central California where summer temps are normally around 100 every day during the summer months. It was 112 just week or two back.

We recently moved from Arizona, so I know where you're coming from. Temps over 110 are pretty common in the summer...one of the reasons that we moved.

We purchased it with the original dual pane windows with metal frames. Two summers ago (our first summer here), we had 5 straight days of 110 or greater and it was impossible to keep the room temp below the mid 80s. Our air conditioning did not shut off for 8+ hours straight every one of those hot days (you can imagine the bill!!!).

Being from Arizona, it wasn't unusual for our A/C to run for 10-12 hours straight, when temps were 115-120. We never turned our thermostat down lower than 82 all summer long--partly to save energy, and partly because there was just no way to cool the house down any further on the really hot days. So I can totally relate to what you're talking about, unfortunately.

We bit the bullet and ordered vinyl framed, dual pane windows with argon gas in the airtight space between the windows. As a backup, we knew we still had the sun blocking screens if necessary.

Wow, you mean business, don't you? I wish we could do that...I'm thinking that winter is going to be pretty bad with heat loss (we live in the Great Plains now), if we're having this kind of trouble in the summer, you know?

Short of window replacement, it is important that you block the sun, preferrably from the outside. Then block it from the inside.

The previous owners left some outdoor shades, but it took us a while to find them, as they'd been stored in the crawl space. Instead of the garage.

I've added to that, on the inside, the following:

* Reflective emergency blankets (cheaper and far larger than solar curtains), which cut down on both the heat and the light

* Closing the venetian blinds on the west side of the house, until the sun's angle is lower than the roof of our detached garage (ahh, blessed shade!)

* On REALLY hot days, we do as we did in Arizona--place a large piece of cardboard in the window for shade, then close the curtains so it's not visible from the inside

I would also suggest a small fan next to the windows, on one end, so the air flow is across the windows. This mixes the hotter air with the cooler air (if it also aimed up to some degree, the air at the top of the room with get mixed too.

Hmm...we do have an air circulating fan, so I could give that a try. The ceiling fan in our MH is so squeaky and noisy, you can't even hear the television over the racket it makes.

My theory is that you must prevent the room from heating in the first place (by blocking as much daylight as possible, starting from the outside), then keep the air moving on the inside (eliminating dead spots like corners or the peak of your ceiling).

We do have a fan, but I don't think it's enough...I think the air circulator would be a better way to do what you're suggesting. It can REALLY move a lot of air in a short period of time, which might well eliminate the dead spots.

On the inside, good quality window coverings would be a good idea too (we installed dark, wood venetian blinds). Once the air is too hot, it is almost impossible to catch up.

That reminds me...one home we had in AZ had plantation shutters, which were GREAT for keeping out the heat and the cold. I really miss those, and I'd love to get them here, but the expense would be unreal, for all the windows we have in the living room, alone.

And yes, as you say, it's hard to cool the place down once it heats up. I had the clever idea of setting the digital thermostat to 84 while we were out of town for the day, then programming it to turn down to 82 before we got home. Never did get the air cooler than 84 that afternoon, despite the fact that our windows were shaded inside and out, that whole day.

I will say, one GREAT thing about living in the Midwest is that at least the nights cool off. No more running the air conditioner all night long. Now, if we could just get those heating bills under control, but that's a question for the Coleman forum....

I know this is a long response, but I wanted to let you know that my experience is similar.

Thanks for your input. I'm going to give the air circulator a try, to
see if that will help with what we've done thus far.

[PrincessJM]

I was just going to suggest adjusting the blow direction switch on your ceiling fans. That's what I do to get the heat away from the ceiling. When the fan blows up, it clears the heat out of that space. Then, your A/C can take care of the rest more efficiently

Princess

[steve]

The biggest heat/cool problem in a MH is that there is no return air ducting. All you get is under the doors and thru the face of the blower. If you could duct the vaulted part of your ceiling to the furnace chamber (filtered of coarse) you would solve heat build up in winter and summer

[tnt17]

And TONS of cans of 'great stuff', insulating foam sealant, most 'peaks' of the cathedral ceilings of course is where both half's of the MH have been 'tied' together. Take off that moulding, and behind it is a 1" crack, going straight into your 'attic' space. Seal it up with the foam, pop the moulding back on, and you'll save 30% i'd say in heat/cooling loss. This goes for all the walls around the perimeter of the house.

[tnt17]

example: master br area, where each half was tied together, can get finger all the way in the crack, 10 feet of this alone, with temps of 120 degrees registering 'in there'.

[WildIrish]

I was just going to suggest adjusting the blow direction switch on your ceiling fans. That's what I do to get the heat away from the ceiling. When the fan blows up, it clears the heat out of that space. Then, your A/C can take care of the rest more efficiently

I'm increasingly worried about whether the ceiling fan is safe to use; it makes an awful racket when we turn it on.

Plus, we can't reach the ceiling fan (it's a cathedral ceiling, and both my mother and I are disabled). Even if we could, I can't find a reverse switch on it--I used binoculars to get a close look from the floor, LOL.

@tnt17:
I'm familiar with "Great Stuff", but again, we can't get up to the peak of the ceiling. Our neighbors are pretty much elderly, or in bad health, so they can't help with this. Handymen want an arm and a leg for the simplest tasks, which we can't afford because we need to get some necessary work done on the plumbing, electrical system, etc.

Thanks for the advice, though--I can at least use Great Stuff on the regular, lower ceilings, where there's a gap between the ceiling and the wall.