My rim joist repair

Repair help for the do-it-yourselfer.
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mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:23 pm

As I have never done anything like this before I will be asking for guidance. I'll attempt to document things in this thread such that someone else can get a, hopefully, full picture of how to tackle one of these jobs.

Background

Purchased house about 10 years ago. At that time it had a deck (and stairs) attached DIRECTLY to the house. This is the rear of the house. Within a short period of time I yanked out the entire deck: I set the stairs in place (not attached) only for use during emergencies.

I held off on this project knowing that I'd also have to replace the door (door jamb had been broken up) AND the skirting. I also need to repair the belly wrap but will hold off doing so until another time (right now I am assessing how to repair, how much patching material I'll need; also cleaning things up).

Here is what things looked like before starting the project:
RearBefore.jpg
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The ground has a contual slope toward the house. Some of the ground around the house's pad was at, and in places, above the pad's edge. With all the rain that gets here this was only ever going to cause problems! So...

I regraded the ground to form a slight "V" such that the ground slopes away from the house. On either wing of the house there is some drainage that I expect water to be funneled to.
RearAfterGradingResized.jpg
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Start of Rim Joist Repair Project

Skirting (the one piece near the door has been subsequently cut out from the gas lines) and belly band removed (I'll be replacing all skirting except on the front of the house [that will wait until I do my deck and porch project- next year?]). Ready to start in on this!
RearStartProjectResized.jpg
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mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:33 pm

Here a picture that attempts to show the entirety of the rim joist area in question (sorry for the odd angle- I was in a hurry to snap it).
RimJoistResized.jpg
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There are two bad spots combining to about 92". They are separated by 33" of good material.

Here is a picture of the REALLY bad spot. It's about 50" of material that will need to be replaced: there are red lines on the siding demarcating the area.
LeftSideResize.jpg
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Here's the other bad spot. It's under the door (area).
DoorResized.jpg
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My understanding is that there should be at least 24" of overlap with a sister joist. I don't believe that I can get a board that would span for BOTH (and have 24" on either end for overlap), as it would have to be about 14 1/2'. AND, I only have 33" between the two spots: I"d need 48" for both sister boards. So...

I'm wondering if I can get away with NOT cutting out that section under the door. There's still some integrity with that joist, and there's good blocking right there. If you look closely there is splicing of rim joist sections right there, which is why that small chunk of 2x6 (I'd be replacing that with a more substantial chunk). That's like 14" of a sister joint! A problem, however, could be with removing that hyper-stapled piece!

mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:13 am

OK... I find that there IS a long enough 2x6 available. I need roughly 15' and the local big box store has 16' boards. A full board for replacing the original joist section would be roughly 10'. Replacing it as one whole piece would mean not having to mess with removing that splicing block (under the middle of the door area).

Q: How does one go about extracting the existing rim joist from the floor and wall sill plate? Will I be able to just pry it down and out, or will I be likely needing to sawzall nails and such? I figure I'd likely have to cut the nails from the floor joists (less of them, and more predictably located than the ones for the flooring and wall sill plate).

Q: How does one go about re-securing the rim joist and floor and floor sill plates?

Q: Does it make any difference where I cut the existing rim joist relative to floor joists? Seems that if I have the option that cutting in the middle (8") of two joists would be best?

mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:14 am

Another question...

Q: How to join the new rim joist piece (filler piece) with the existing (the single outer rim joist)?

Would mending plates be of any value? With 24" or so of overlap with a sister board I'm not thinking that there's going to be any concerns over possible movement.

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Greg
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Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:21 pm

You could do an overlapping repair with no problem. as far as getting the old one out, just slice & dice till it's out.
You can glue & screw the new sections in place, that is where overlapping may make it easier.

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."


mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:08 pm

I'm rethinking whether to end-nail or just go with Simpson joist hangers for reconnecting the floor joists. Seems that the hangers would be a lot more rigid. I know I'll have to do this for a few joists that will behind where the overlap is.

mdnagel
Posts: 176
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Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:14 pm

OK, finally got at it!
JoistRemovedResized.jpg
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Q: What works best to cut the ends of the floor joists? I've got a Sawzall.

Q: Should I cut or just hammer flat the flooring staples that were attaching to the rim joist? And, should I look to tie in the sill plates to the new rim joist pieces (nail)?

Q: Can I attach the sister joint to the outer rim joist (existing and new infill piece) via nailing from the outer side ( the sister joist will pretty much stay still as it'll be backed up by the floor joists)? I don't have a lot of room to be swinging a hammer on the inboard side: I don't want to cut the belly wrap back. (the floor joist hangers will be affixed using approved scews)

Under the door will need some work. There is about 2 inches of the flooring under the threshold that is a bit compromised, with the areas toward the outer sides of the door being pretty much gone. I am not at a good point to be removing the door, so a better view from the topside isn't possible right now. Kind of thinking that I'll just cut a small section out (square it up) and put a filler piece there to help support the threshold. NOTE: One of the outriggers(?) must have gotten hammered when folks originally moved the trailer; this is why that odd/ugly looking clamp thingys on the middle floor joist (I'm just ignoring it- it looks like crap but I don't sense any issues with it).
UnderDoorJoistRemovedResized.jpg
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Q: Would I be OK to just add additional blocking to the back side of the new sister joint (between the floor joists)?

Odds and ends...

Q: Should I look to put in a swath of Tyvex? No idea why there's no vapor barrier. If so, does it typically install down and over the rim joist?

Q: I'm thinking about painting the back side of the new siding pieces. Is this a good idea (or might it interfere with water vapor handling [no idea how it could given there's currently no vapor barrier])?

Q: What can I use to fill and seal some siding spots that are under where the belly band was? I've got a few spots that got chunked/gouged out a bit (nails ripped out the material- wimpy sawdust siding!).

Q: Should T1-11's groves be caulked at the top of the new band board? Everything was caulked when I pulled the band off.

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Greg
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Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:30 pm

As long as you can make accurate cut with a sawsall you should be fine.

I cut the staples with wire cutters. I would tie everything in with screws.

get the framing done before worrying about the sub floor.

extra blocking can never hurt.

tyvek is always a good idea.

Painting /sealing the back side would not hurt, but may not help much either.

You may be able to seal it up with paintable caulk, there really is no easy way to make it look perfect.

at the top I would make some Z flashing to keep water out.

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:35 am

What does one use to reattach the belly wrap to the rim joist? I popped out quite a few staples. I'm figuring that the staples are more substantial than what I can use in my standard stapler.

Would something like roofing nails (large head) work?

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Greg
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Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:27 pm

Staple in place and then use a furring strip or 1x and screw that into place to hold the belly material.

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:15 am

What staples? (I've only got a simple T50 stapler.)

The material (at least along the rim joist here) is sound.

mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:35 am

Wanted to provide this tip in case someone else might find it useful...

The sister rim joist needs to be fit in behind remaining, good rim joist material. That meant cutting a couple of floor joists while preserving the rim joist in those areas. Once cut (trimmed) and the wood removed I needed to deal with a bunch of staples. Really hard to get a good cut on the staples so I ended up taking a dremel and from the outer side of the rim joist cut the staple's "U" to then end up with two independent pieces of staple legs. I then used pliers and (twisting and curling) extract the staple pieces. The result was that I then had nothing to scrape against or hang up on when I slid the sister joist in.

Again, this was only necessary for a couple of floor joists (to facilitate the overlap of the sister joist). All other floor joist ends and staples came out with the bad rim joist pieces.

mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:23 am

Work has been done for some time now: I've been busy working on skirting.

Here's the result:
RimJoistDone_resized.jpg
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I had a replacement door but found that it's not the right size: it's for a 2x4 wall; cannot find one for a 2x6 (that's 32"x80"). Will end up replacing some of the outer, lower jamb. Also need to shore up/do any repairs of flooring underneath the door.

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Greg
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Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:57 pm

just add to the jams to fit a thicker wall.

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

mdnagel
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 am

Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:42 pm

I will probably just repair the existing door's frame (and sell the new door).

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