Installing New Waterlines

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Hillsteader
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:09 pm
Location: Southwestern PA

Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:16 am

Hey everyone, this is my first post here and first big project this season! I am planning to replace all the waterlines in our double-wide home with PEX pipe. We currently have polybutylene and have had many problems this winter. Here is my plan and some questions. This is my first plumbing project, I greatly appreciate any knowledge and advice shared.

I plan to run the 3/4" main supply line from the ground straight up into the belly, insulate it with a drain tile pipe (as described in "The Manual" Chapter 17), then run the remainder of the main line inside the belly and into the house near the water heater. Here, I will install a tee; one line will continue to the water heater, the other to a manifold, both still 3/4". (OR, I could use a manifold with two open ends and connect the main line and the line to the water heater in this way, does it matter which??) I will install separate shut-off valves for each of these lines. At the manifold(s), a 1/2" supply line will connect to each utility in the house, each with their own shut-off valve. The hot water supply (3/4" again) will connect from the hot water heater to a separate manifold.

I plan to move all the waterlines up into the floor cavity. They are currently hanging under the floor cavity inside the belly. As for insulation, is it cost effective to install batt insulation between the floor joists, with gaps around the pipes, PLUS hanging belly material with adhered insulation?? We need all the insulation we can get. The belly is currently torn in many places, insulation is wet from pipe leaks, and our skirting is in bad condition. (I plan to install insulated metal skirting as described in "The Manual".)

Seems simple enough. Some days I'm confident in my plans, others not so much. We have well water here, and I am still confused as to how it actually works! We replaced the pressure switch on the pump before this winter. The pump, by the way, is located completely on the other side of the house than where the main line comes up out of the ground. What's that about, is that normal?? What about the well system do I need to consider when replacing the waterlines?? Pressure/pipe sizes, how do I know it's right?? Do I need to install a pressure gauge on the main line where it comes into the house??

Am I getting any of this right? Am I missing anything?
Thanks for reading and responding!


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Greg
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Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:16 pm

You seem to have a good grasp on what you are doing. I would run 3/4" as a main line through the home and branch off with 1/2" to the faucets. don't forget shutoffs at each faucet and don't cheap out there, use either Brass or Stainless I prefer to use a 1/4 turn ball valve. stay away from plastic valves since they tend to fail when you need them most.

You could install a Pressure gauge if you want, but I am not sure if there is a real need. There should be one near the pump.

here is a link that may help explain the system http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/ho ... 2/1275136/

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

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thatswhoiam
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Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:12 pm

I think this is a great idea. leaks can be devastating on a mobile home, especially the slow ones that go unnoticed for way too long.

I'm curious to know what the price would be to replace all the lines including the shut off valves for a home with 2 full baths, kitchen, dishwasher, washing machine, water heater, and 2 outside faucets. I would really like to know this, (ballpark figure).

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Greg
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Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:16 pm

Are you looking for materials only price or installed price?

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

jimncheryl
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:12 pm

Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:43 am

Has anybody had any experience with any of the various moisture alarms, as to reliability?
I have been thinking of trying them in critical locations. We have had water damage from the slow type leaks. I have since replaced most fittings with the original SharkBite fittings and no problems as of yet.
Thanks Jim


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Greg
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Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:54 am

I think Mark has them in the store.
http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/waterdetect.htm

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

jpingram5
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Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:39 pm

http://www.amazon.com/Viega-50143-2-Inc ... x+manabloc

I really like these manifold systems. The big advantage to them is pressure balance and also you have no joints that you cannot get to. Basically you plumb the main to the manifold then a single solid pipe will run from the manifold to the fixture. No tee's, elbows etc etc etc. Cost a little more and may be a little more work but if you have the cash and the motivation I'd go for it.
2009 Skyline Sunwood Premier 14 x 80

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thatswhoiam
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Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:57 pm

Greg, just materials.

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Greg
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Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:48 pm

The most expensive part will be the crimp tool, sometimes you can find them on craigslist fairly cheap and Mark does have them in the site's store also. You can find the fittings & parts on line or the box stores. Watch where they are made, many people question fittings & tubes from China since you really do not know for sure what materials are in them.

I have not done a whole system, just repairs so I really can't say what the whole home would cost. Your best bet would be to do some quick figuring.

Greg
"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

ponch37300
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Location: wisconsin

Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:09 pm

thatswhoiam wrote:Greg, just materials.
It would depend on a lot of things. Crimpers have come way down in price. When I bought my first one some 10 years ago they were really expensive but now you can buy them fairly cheap. And in my opinion every MH owner should have one and a variety of fittings and crimp rings.

Pex is fairly cheap, a 100' of 3/4" is about 75 bucks which should be enough for a hot and cold run the length of the trailer depending on length of MH and layout. Might need a few more feet. 100' roll of 1/2" is probably around 25 bucks. Fittings are a few bucks each so they can add up pretty fast. Also valves are between 5-10 bucks each depending on which kind you get so they also add up fast. So you're probably looking at around 300 bucks for the materials plus a crimper. But this would depend on a lot of things.

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Greg
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Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:00 am

"If I can't fix it, I can screw it up so bad no one else can either."

kailor
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Location: Huntsville, Alabama

Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:15 pm

I come up from the ground with 1" PVC. Next in line is the Pressure Reducing Valve (make sure arrow is same direction as water flow). I come off the PRV with 3/4" PEX to water heater. All lines to/from water heater are 3/4". All horizontal runs under the trailer, yet inside the belly wrap, are 3/4". When I go vertical up to a fixture, I transition to 1/2" PEX. Take a few minutes to consider where you would want to have shut-off valves. All fixtures need shut off valves and consider one if/when you must replace water heater next time. I find it much easier to work with 20' lengths of PEX...not rolls.
Thanks!
Two 14x66's

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JD
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Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:04 pm

I have done many total replumbs. Cost in the PEx only parts were $300 - $400, running a trunk line system, basically replacing the factory plumbing with PEx, ending with PEx 1/4 turn shut offs at fixtures. I do use 3/4" everywhere I can. You should also replace all supply lines to sink faucets and toilets, unless the ones you have are less than 2 months old for some reason. I also install a new washer/dryer shutoff box. These are available set up in PEx, with the big washer nut to tighten the valve to the plastic box. I buy my supplies from SupplyHouse.com. http://www.supplyhouse.com/PEX-Plumbing-515000 I also use the Stainless Oetiker type clamps rather than the copper crimp ring. It is much easier to install and only requires one tool for all sizes of rings. Instead of a go/no go gauge to check each fitting, there is a gauge you use to check/set the tool and then you are good to go. Installed literally thousands of fittings without a single clamp issue. The clamp tool I like is an Apollo One Hand tool from Lowes. I am sure you can get them elsewhere as well. http://www.lowes.com/pd_153571-61002-69 ... facetInfo= This tool is great! Once you have calibrated (or just checked) the tool, it has the ratchet action and a LED light on the side that goes off when you have clamped enough. You will find a lot of your fittings will be going into hard to reach areas, really hard when you need to get two hands up there. With this tool and Oetiker SS clamp, you can grab the nib of the clamp and mash down just enough that the clamp cannot fall out of the tool, but hasn't closed the ring too much to fit on the pipe. Set the ring in the tool, put the ring over the pipe, let go, get your fitting and fit it into the pipe, grab the tool and position the ring where you want it and squeeze. Easy Peasy.
☯JD♫
Today is PERFECT!

All information and advice given is for entertainment and informational purposes only. The person doing the work is solely responsible to insure that their work complies with their local building code and OSHA safety regulations.

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Hillsteader
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:09 pm
Location: Southwestern PA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:28 am

Hey all, finally ready for an update. Here are some pics of the new main line. Found a new plastic connector (bottom piece) and 3/4" threaded pex connector (top brass piece) at Lowes. The plastic piece is something like this:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_53802-322-35030 ... nfo=Insert

I installed the drain pipe around the exposed section of the main line. Right now, it is protecting the PEX from exposure to sunlight. After new belly and skirting is installed, it will allow warm(er) air from the belly to reach the line.

I got most of my supplies from supplyhouse.com for just under $400. I went with the Uponor AquaPEX-a, which is the most flexible and most freeze resistant pex tubing type.

I will post an update on the other end of the line soon.
Attachments
(1) main line connection.jpg
(1) main line connection.jpg (36.37 KiB) Viewed 6476 times
(2) main line with drain pipe cover.jpg
(2) main line with drain pipe cover.jpg (52.31 KiB) Viewed 6476 times
(3) main line into floor cavity.jpg
(3) main line into floor cavity.jpg (22.39 KiB) Viewed 6476 times

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Hillsteader
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Location: Southwestern PA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:08 am

Here's how we ran the main line into the house. The tubing is installed up in the floor cavity rather than hanging below the floor joists as the old plumbing was. Hoping this will keep the pipes warmer in the winter.

The installation parts were getting expensive, so I just got a few pieces and experimented to find out where I need them and where I don't. When making a bend to go through a floor joist, the bend radius has to be the whole width of the floor cavity to prevent kinking. This eliminated the need for bend supports here. Suspension clamps, seen on the tubing to the left, are installed every 32".

Also, you'll notice I chose to use the stainless steel cinch clamp connection method rather than the copper crimp ring method. This is because the clamp tool is more user friendly and less expensive, stainless steel is stronger and more freeze resistant than copper, and, as JD has said on this site:

"The cinch ring is a lot more engineered also. There is a stop built into it so you will know when you are fully seated. You can see the engineering in how the ring actually does "cinch" or tighten evenly around the fitting and you don't end up with the two bumps like on the copper ring."

On that note, thanks to everyone on this forum for all the great advice and support. The info on this site has been instrumental in helping me start this project. So, thanks for being here all :)
Attachments
(5) tubing bends.jpg
Tubing insulators, difficult to see here, but it is the plastic piece installed around the larger tubing as it goes through the hole in the floor joist. Found out the hard way, these are supposed to be installed AFTER the tubing is run, it's REALLY difficult to pull the tubing through these after they are installed. Also, tubing insulators are not necessary. You can run tubing through joists without them, except maybe metal joists. Since it would be prohibitively expensive to buy all the insulators I would need for all the joists I need to run tubing through, I'm not going to use these anywhere else.
(5) tubing bends.jpg (37.07 KiB) Viewed 6457 times
(6) main line into house.jpg
I installed a bend support here, where the main line goes up into the house. But I don't think it's entirely necessary here either. Carefully placed suspension clamps can be used to hold the bends just as well.
(6) main line into house.jpg (36.67 KiB) Viewed 6457 times
(7) manifold.jpg
And finally, the manifold. Super proud of this contraption. Each supply line will run directly to each fixture with all shut-off valves in a central location. I will install a separate manifold for hot water.
(7) manifold.jpg (26.98 KiB) Viewed 6457 times

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