Frozen pipes and propane shortage stories

[ponch37300]

What a brutal winter so far! Negative 48 with windchill here yesterday. We had some frozen pipes but I got them thawed out pretty quick by turning the heat up and using a heat lamp. I have a hole in the underbelly I found after the pipes froze during the last cold spell. A 2x2 or so patch from a previous repair job years ago came down along with some of the insulation in that area right under the water heater. I stuffed some more insulation in there but think I'll wait until spring to clean the underbelly and do a proper repair. Last time I stuffed a heat lamp up in the floor trusses and have it on a remote controlled outlet, one we used for Christmas lights! So when they freeze I crank the heat up to 75 and turn the heat lamp on until they thaw and then turn the heat lamp off. Don't think it would start a fire but don't want to take any chances by leaving it on all night. Anyone else dealing with frozen pipes?

Anyone affected by the propane shortage? I'm glad we are on city natural gas. Around here the propane prices almost doubled and they are only delivering small amounts, won't fill your tank fully. Also not taking new customers. So if you aren't on a contract I guess you're out of luck. From what I've read we aren't short on propane, we are short on delivering it to the suppliers. They also said that huge train wreck last year prompted some changes that are affecting the train delivery of propane. Hopefully they get it figured out by summer so I can grill out!

And I don't want to hear any of you guys in Florida complaining about having to cut your grass!!! Although I was watching the news today and looks like Georgia is one big mess. Looks like winter is hitting us all hard this year! Hopefully everyone is staying warm and safe.

[jpingram5]

My propane is coming tomorrow to fill. I called Monday and got it at $2.24 per gallon. I called today just to see and it's $3.25 a gallon now. Good thing I called early! I think this whole "Propane Shortage" is just some political nonsense. With the economy being the way it is people are buying a lot less of Oil & Propane. I feel these companies are intentionally doing it to make profits.

[ponch37300]

From what I've heard it's over 5 dollars a gallon around here. I don't know if it's political or not but what I've read is that they can't get it delivered to the suppliers fast enough. The declared a state of emergency here and are allowing truckers to drive longer hours and some other restrictions taken off. Also read that the big train derailment carrying oil last year in Canada led to more restrictions on trains carrying things like oil and propane. I guess there is plenty of propane to go around, it's just not getting places fast enough and the temps have been brutally cold this year.

[Greg]

I personally think it is a combination of corporate greed and the opportunity of demand. Here in NY is see that the price of Diesel has risen to $4.33/gal and the price of Gas has dropped to $3.44. Now the price difference has between the two has been around 50 cents, But I would guess the Oil companies would say that more has been diverted to heating oil to justify the diesel price. But with that in mind, How do they justify the heating oil price?

I'll stick to my pellet stove!!

Greg

[sammeedog]

Our first winter here, the oil went from 3.79 in October 4.40 this month. We had one plumber visit for frozen pipe leading to hot water heater and the filter for the oil froze and we had no heat one night. Coming from natural gas and a standard house, we're learning real quick. Husband is taking advantage of any snow and packing it up against the skirting. Him and my son are getting underneath this place come spring whether they like it or not.

[ponch37300]

Diesel is one thing I never understood. Around 2005 I bought a F250 and when I was comparing them used diesels weren't that much more then gas trucks. Diesel at the time was 10 cents more a gallon then gas. I ended up getting a 2003 7.3L diesel because with a little work they get way better fuel millage then the V10. Within 6 months of buying it diesel sky rocketed and the gap between diesel and gas kept growing. Then things would settle out and gas would go down, diesel never would follow. I never understood this since it takes less crude to make diesel and also less refining to make it versus gas. But yet costs more because of the demand and because almost every thing we buy is shipped using diesel on trucks, ships, and trains.

Sammee, this summer make sure your belly material is all patched up and fix any holes or tears. Also look for spots where the insulation may have been compromised. A couple years ago we had frozen pipes from when we had a water leak and it got some of the insulation wet. There was also some spots were the belly material was torn open. I added some new insulation and patched up the holes and we didn't have any frozen pipes. Even at double digit negative temps. Our skirting also has a bunch of pieces that have vents in them so cold air can get under there and we still were good. That is why I was caught a little off guard this year when I woke up to frozen pipes. After crawling down there to see what was going on I saw a previous repair has come down. Hoping to wait till spring to fix that since I like to clean the area good before putting a patch on.

If you do need to patch some tears or openings make sure you use the tape and material for this. Duct tape and others just don't work. I'm going to take a tip from JD and use some spray adhesive this time to see if it holds a little better. One you get it all patched up you shouldn't have to worry about frozen pipes anymore.

[sammeedog]

Thanks Ponch, I've actually been lurking here for a few months, trying to take everything in. I'll be cracking the whip to get them under there and check everything out. Not just for winter, but summer too. It could be cooler in here too. Between electric and oil its crazy,

[Steve S.]

Same shortages and higher prices for propane here in northern New England. Prices for gasoline and diesel are similar to Greg in NY. Remember that diesel i.e. kerosene (I think it's the same stuff) is also used to heat homes...that is what I use...and seems it is always priced about 50 cents higher per gallon than regular heating oil.
Ponch, I lived in Wisconsin for several years so I know about the brutal cold (Arctic Express) you guys have to deal with...and I worked outdoors there! I remember several mornings around 30-40 below zero where my truck wouldn't even turn over even with an engine block heater. Winters aren't as frigid here as the upper Midwest but still can get several weeks of subzero temps. I've used about 30% more kerosene this season so far, and we still have at least Feb and March to go yet! Yowweee! Stay warm friends.

[UmpJJ]

We ordered propane and had the tank filled in September when it was $1.65/gallon. It's near $4 now around here (central Indiana). YIKES! Glad we have a big tank.
We also had frozen pipes last week when temps were below zero. That's when I discovered a bit of a "blowout" in the skirting near a rear bathroom (3 outside walls), and that's where the freeze occurred. Once I fixed the open spot, cranked up the heat in that bathroom, and opened the cabinet doors under the sink the pipes thawed. Now I leave water running if the forecast says zero overnight...and that's worked.
Would it help to cover the vents in the skirting? They're the kind that open and close automatically depending on the temperature, but I have to believe they blow open when it gets really windy. I can put covers over them pretty easily until the weather warms up, if anyone thinks that will help.
Thanks!

UmpJJ

[Greg S]

I have found in our community the most common cause of frozen pipes is a result of the home owner not keeping the temperature in the home high enough.
Often the heat tapes on water lines are not applied to the line between the belly wrap and the floor of the home itself. This is the area that freezes when the house temperature is dropped during very cold weather.
As far as leaving water running during cold spells this will help prevent frozen water lines at the risk of frozen (burst) sewer lines. We have seen this happen more than once.

[JD]

Guys, this is probably an off topic subject as there is nothing to put a wrench on or bang with a hammer, but I will go with the flow here.

For anyone using the Flexmend tape, you almost have to use a heat gun with plenty of pressure to get the stuff to stick good. I haven't tried it, but the elastomeric roofing primer may help it stick easier and better.

On the spray adhesive, try to get at least a 12" glued/overlapped seam, when attaching to the old underbelly. Where that is not possible, like on the rim joist with no underbelly left, I use glue and roofing staples. A strip of paneling or thin plywood with screws or nails would also work.

And keeping with the spirit of this post, here's a pic for you.