High heat bills

[USAbassist]

Hello. I just discovered this forum and wanted to know if the problem I'm experiencing is typical or not.

Five years ago I purchased a 1973 Fleetwood mobile home (single-wide - approx. 860 sq. ft.). I don't know the model or anything. The furnace (propane-fueled, forced air through ducts) looked like it was probably original to the home, although the roof was put on about 18 years ago (a regular, house-like roof, not a mobile roof).

I've always been extremely cold in the winter, and this is my 6th winter in this mobile home (I live in northeastern PA). As I don't make a lot of money, I keep the thermostat between 57-59 degreees most of the heating season (except when it's going to be in the single digits for an extended period of time, then I reluctantly pop it all the way up to 60 degrees).

The air flow at the front of the house (the furthest from the furnace) has always been the weakest, and the second winter I was here a friend from church (who used to work on mobile homes in a former job), checked my ducts and said they were collapsed (dented in) in several places. He stuck boards (2 X 4's) in them to pry them open, then left them in there to act as a support to keep them from re-collapsing. The air is still fairly week all the way at the front, but that's not the problem about which I'm writing.

Between Dec. 22 and Jan. 26 (35 days), I used 130 gallons of propane ($430 - and the price continues to rise with each and every delivery). All but 2 of my windows are covered with heavy plastic, and I have a thick blanket tacked over the interior of my back door.

I don't know what the insulation situation is beneath the mobile, as I've only been under there once (I have health issues which prohibit me from being able to go under, much less stay in that position), but I know the bathroom floor (as well as the floor of the adjacent room) are rotted. (Something the previous owner never told me. Apparently there had been a leak around the toilet, and most of the floor within 8 feet in all directions is weak.) As I said, my income is very low, and I cannot afford to replace the floor. From my one venture beneath the trailer (5 years ago) I know that the insulation around the toilet was pulled down in places (probably where the original leak had been), but I have no idea what the insulation situation is throughout the remainder of the underbelly.

The end of February the furnace conked out again, and it was replaced with a Miller CMF2. I assumed that the new furnace would be much more efficient than the old "relic" which came with the home. However, it doesn't even seem to be maintaining the same warmth as the previous furnace, even though it's set at the same temp. Worse, it still seems to be using extraordinary amounts of fuel. BTW, there are no discernible leaks in the furnace area.

I cannot understand how my heating bills can be so high, particularly as others in my family are paying less than half of what I'm paying each month to cover more than three times the square footage (with even higher ceilings), at much higher temps (65-75 degrees). It makes absolutely no sense. Granted, they live in houses, and not mobile homes, but even so, how can the difference be that much?

I am completely baffled as I'm paying a fortune to freeze.

If anyone told me the story I'm relating here, I'd honestly think they were crazy or a liar -- yet this is the absolute truth. $430 a month to maintain 57 degrees over 860 sq. feet. It boggles the mind. I am at a loss how to deal with this. How is it possible to be using so much fuel to freeze? I feel like I'm lost in a backwards, upside, bizarro world.

Is this typical, or am I just in horrible situation from which there is no realistic escape?

Thank you. Would appreciate any comments or advice.

[Greg]

Hi & welcome. There are a few things that need to be done before any specific advice can be given on the heat lose but here are some general rules.

First, the underbelly. It needs to be intact with no holes & insulation in place. If you have rotted floors they need to be repaired. Money is an issue for most of us, it's a pay me now or pay me later situation. I would rather plan a repair rather than get up on morning and be looking at the ground under the home.

Windows. Original "Trailer" windows are one of the biggest source of heat lose in the home.

The age of the home. Your home is a pre HUD home. In the 80's HUD set minimum construction standards for Mobile homes. Many older homes may have had only 2-4" of insulation in the walls.

You may be able to have a home energy audit done and identify the problem areas in your home.

Greg

[USAbassist]

Thanks, Greg. I'll try to get someone to check underneath for me, but understandably, those I ask are quite hesitant to do so.

Regarding the rotted floor, it is completely beyond my means. It's not that I'd rather spend the money elsewhere, it's that I physically don't have it. Not a penny.

All of the windows (except the bathroom) are original, and I've a ton of them (6 living room, 3 kitchen, 1 pantry, 1 spare room, 1 hall, 2 back bedroom). All but two of them are covered with plastic.

Thanks again.

[JD]

I'd almost bet you that part of your duct work is loose or not sealed in a major way. Also the underbelly that Greg mentioned could be critical to your air return. Some homes of that era use a space between floor joists as the return air duct. Yep, no insulation in that bay.

[USAbassist]

Thank you. I'll try to get someone to look at it.

[1987Commodore]

Ouch!
Do a search in your area for any weatherization programs out there. There are income based gvt programs to assist you. As an example, we received an energy audit through an agency here. They did an air infiltration test, checked our furnace, water heater, refrigerator, and replaced all light bulbs with cfl. Upon analysis of the results, we got a new 90+ efficiency Miller furnace, new AO Smith gas water heater, two new bathroom windows, and new bath vent fans at no cost to us whatsoever. They also replaced the floor registers, and sealed the ducts to the floor registers with foil tape. Our refrigerator was too new to qualify for replacement. They also did adjustments to the gas cook stove to increase efficiency and lower CO, and repaired holes in the belly.
We were on the waiting list for nearly a year to get scheduled, but once they got started, all was done in two days. I think I could have gotten more windows replaced, but I had just completed a thorough caulking job and installation of trim moldings around the inside storm windows. When they did the blower door test after completion of the work, the numbers were good.
I know I got the windows sealed well. Without plastic over them, we have absolutely zero condensation on them, and there are the standard trailer windows people usually say are no good.

Also, for your heat bills, apply for HEAP. Same agency you go to for that can likely hook you up with weatherization.
Pretty much an apples to oranges comparison in this case, but I have a 14X80 1987 Commodore home, with 6" walls. My natural gas bill for heat, hot water, and cooking is less than $850.00/year, with a family of four.

[USAbassist]

Thanks for the reply. I have been getting the heating assistance for several years, but my bills are so incredibly high, it only makes a small dent. I'm still grateful, none-the-less, as I'd be in an even worse predicament without it.

Regarding the weatherization, I am again (supposedly) on their list. They came out a few years ago and didn't check any of the things you said they checked for you. They replaced my bathroom window and the back door -- that's it. (And the back door they gave me is actually colder to the touch than the original door that had been there.)

They never looked at my water heater (which was ancient, and which I replaced myself 2 years ago with a smaller, 30 gal.). They ignored my furnace (which was close to 40 years old, and which had broken down on me 4 times in as many years). (However, last month when my furnace broke, I phoned them and they did finally replace it -- although, I went without heat for 10 days waiting for them to do that. And the new Miller furnace is apparently using just as much fuel as the old one, and the house feels colder.)

I do have an old refrigerator (1992), but I'm not concerned about that. My biggest concern is the outrageously obscene heat bills to maintain only 59 degrees in less than 700 sq. feet. I'm averaging $1600 a year (and that's just for heat; I use propane for nothing else; and that's at the current rates -- they continue to rise).

They also never even looked under my trailer, much less went under and inspected anything.

I'm glad they did so much for you. You were blessed with some very efficient workmen. I had a bunch of guys who ran through the house, than ran away from it as quickly as they could.

[1987Commodore]

I think the programs have changed in recent years.
Are you going through a state agency for weatherization?

[USAbassist]

I think the programs have changed in recent years.
Are you going through a state agency for weatherization?

Yes. I think so. It's the same agency through which I get the heating assistance.

[1987Commodore]

Then you should get helped with the most up to date guidelines. Unfortunately, if you have the very thin exterior walls, there is just no easy way to add insulation to them. From what you describe your furnace airflow to be like, I'd guess the duct work is disconnected somewhere underneath, so you are heating the outdoors, as JD posted.

[USAbassist]

Then you should get helped with the most up to date guidelines. Unfortunately, if you have the very thin exterior walls, there is just no easy way to add insulation to them. From what you describe your furnace airflow to be like, I'd guess the duct work is disconnected somewhere underneath, so you are heating the outdoors, as JD posted.

My exterior walls seem to be about 4" thick.

I can't imagine how the duct work can be disconnected, as wouldn't I feel a draft coming through the vents if that were the case? I don't feel any cool air emitted from the ducts.

[1987Commodore]

Do you have access to a digital camera? You could put one down through the floor registers and take some pictures, looking each direction from two or three registers, to see what is going on, and answer the duct separation questions.

[flcruising]

Where are you at exactly?

$400+ per month is atrocious. I like everyone else here am inclined to believe that your problem is in the ductwork. If you don't have the money to fix it, in the meantime I suggest you switch to space heaters. The problem with that is you may have some freezing issues with your water pipes since the furnace heat is not reaching them as readily. If you can block off the vents in the rooms you occupy and setup space heaters instead, you can at least not have icicles hanging from your nose.

[USAbassist]

Where are you at exactly?

$400+ per month is atrocious. I like everyone else here am inclined to believe that your problem is in the ductwork. If you don't have the money to fix it, in the meantime I suggest you switch to space heaters. The problem with that is you may have some freezing issues with your water pipes since the furnace heat is not reaching them as readily. If you can block off the vents in the rooms you occupy and setup space heaters instead, you can at least not have icicles hanging from your nose.

I live in northeastern Pennsylvania.

My mother and other family have been suggesting space heaters for a while, but the trouble is -- I'm still going to pay the outrageous propane bills anyhow, because I'm paying those outrageous propane bills just to maintain a frigid 57-59 degrees. I can't turn the furnace any lower than I already have it without the pipes freezing (as you already pointed out).

There seems to be no solution given my health and finances. (Believe me. If I could afford to live elsewhere, I never would've moved here in the first place.)

[USAbassist]

Including the current heating season (which is not yet over), I've been in this mobile home for 6 winters . I've only kept records for four and half (beginning with Feb. 1, 2007). For the very end of the 2006/2007 heating season (February-April 2007) I used 182.3 gal. of propane. For 2007/2008 heat season I used 518.7 gal; 2008/2009 = 534.9 gal.; 2009/2010 = 552.5 gal; and so far this heating season (not yet over) = 493 + gal. (And this year the furnace was broken for 10 full days at the end of February, where it wasn't running at all, or that number would be higher.)

And just to reiterate, I only use the propane for heat, and keep my thermostat set at 57/59 degrees. My water heater and other appliances do not use propane.

I should've known something was wrong when I asked the woman who was selling me the home to see her heating bills, and she replied that she didn't have any (deceptively implying that she didn't keep copies of her bills, as she undoubtedly knew she'd never sell this place to anyone who had full disclosure about all of the problems with it). If the Lord ever blesses me with another place to which I can move, I know I'll never be able to sell this place, as I will not lie about the multiple defects as she did. And, as it's on a rented lot, I foresee a multitude of problems in that respect.