Remodel in progress

[eflyersteve]

Hey all - new member here. Wanted to thank everyone for the great resource that this forum provides.

We are in the process of an ever-growing remodel. What started as changing a 3rd bedroom into a laundry/utility room has quickly grown into kitchen, flooring, roof, siding and windows.

we have a 16x80 with peaked, rolled metal roof (no overhang) and metal siding. Both are in need of repair. WIndows are the single pane mobile home type. Because of the way the roof transitions into the siding, I had no idea how to tackle this myself so I started researching. At the same time, we have called three contractors to give us estimates.

I am pretty confident that I know how to handle the roofing and siding after pouring through the threads on this forum. I've located a source for the materials and it looks like for around $4500, I should be able to purchase all the materials (windows included). Still waiting to hear back on the estimates but I am thinking that a quote of $10k wouldn't surprise me.

We've decided to go with vinyl, single hung, dual pane, low E windows, smartside panel siding and 26ga painted roofing (with eve trim, gable trim and new Z trim for the bottom). I'm actually eager to start the process (unless I get a real surprise and the contractor estimates are low) but have a couple of questions:

1) On the LP Smartside Panels - they are shiplap construction and require that the overlap happens on a stud. The home is 2x4 construction 16" OC, but what happens if a stud doesn't happen to fall in the right place? Would it be acceptable to toe-nail a 2x3 in? I say 2x3 because that would eliminate me having to drill for electrical pass-through. I would use 2x4's where possible.

2) I'm happy that it looks like for the most part, I can use full sheets on the side. On the gable ends however, I'll need to stack sheets vertically. Should I use small 'z' flashing on the horizontal seams between the top and bottom sheets? Or just butt them and caulk? (I think I know the answer already)

3) Windows - I plan to re-frame openings where necessary (some of the windows are pretty large - two on the end are close to 80" tall), apply siding, cut open window openings and install on the outside of the siding (new construction windows with nail fins - caulk or butyl tape applied underneath) then cover the nail fins with smartside trim and caulk. Is this the correct order of install or should I install the windows direct to the frame and then install siding?

4) Roofing - I can get the panels custom cut to any size. Currently, from peak to edge of roof measures roughly 8'1". I would like 3"-4" overhang. I understand that at the peak, the panels do not butt against the panels on the opposite side of the peak. The peak trim I use will need a certain amount of overlap though. How much overlap should I have on the peak trim so that I can know how long to have the panels cut? I know there are different peak trim profiles, but the standard size seems to be about 12" overall width with what appears to require 3" overlap on each side (judging by the profile bends)

I know it's a lot to take in and I appreciate any help I can get. I'll try and chronicle the process here for all to learn from.

[JeffInFL]

Where are you getting the siding from? I'm moving in to an older doublewide with ugly dented metal siding, and would love to swap it out with vinyl one day. I look forward to your updates, as I'm starting the same process myself .. gutting and rebuilding the interior.

[eflyersteve]

Hey Jeff,

I am planning on using LP SmartSide panels. These are similar to an OSB sheet with a panel and wood grain embossed on one side. Lowes and Home Depot have the lowest price that I've been able to find ($26.00 each 4'x8' sheet - tan primer applied). I've heard and seen this material really last and it can go straight over the studs (tyvek wrap first). Vinyl will need to have sheathing installed first (at least in my case - I have no sheathing - only tin over studs) which raises the overall cost.

I've installed vinyl siding - it's pretty easy really. Let us know when you get close and I'll try and give as much advice as I can.

[Steve-WA]

All in all seems pretty much on the mark. Yes, z-strip the stacked siding.

I think using a sistered 2x3 would be OK, and screw the windows to the framing, then side over them.

I have a similar project coming up

[JeffInFL]

Sounds good .. I can't wait to see how yours turns out! I'm quite a ways away from worrying about siding. I'm only on day 3 of demolition. Good luck with the install!

[eflyersteve]

Thanks for the info Steve-WA. Much appreciated.

We are currently waiting for a quote from the first contractor, but I am reluctant to wait too long because of the good deal we have found on the roofing panels. I wonder how many days to get back to us?

We still need to complete the new laundry room - have to install an arch in the new doorway, tape, mud, texture and paint two walls and install the dryer vent and power. Hopefully we will be completing most of that this weekend. Still need to install the flooring before we can call that portion complete.

[eflyersteve]

Well we got our first quote - $14,000!? So I think doing it myself is the way I'll go.

The guy quoting it said that he would put the smartside panels over the tin. The problem is that at the top, there are three layers (tin, an overlap of a short tin panel and trim). Plus the coregation would need to be compressed somehow (where does it go when you compres it anyway). Not sure I agree with that.

Thoughts?

[Greg]

That honestly makes no sense to me. I would remove the aluminum siding, wrap with house wrap and then apply the new siding. If for no other reason to recover the scrap cost of the aluminum to help pay for some of the job.

Greg

[ponch37300]

First, I will second Greg on scrapping any tin/aluminum you can. I know a few people that almost paid for all their new siding by scrapping the old aluminum siding. Well worth the effort. Call around to local scrap yards and get prices, sometimes they can vary pretty good. I've already driven 30 minutes to a different scrap yard because they were paying that much more.

1) On the LP Smartside Panels - they are shiplap construction and require that the overlap happens on a stud. The home is 2x4 construction 16" OC, but what happens if a stud doesn't happen to fall in the right place? Would it be acceptable to toe-nail a 2x3 in? I say 2x3 because that would eliminate me having to drill for electrical pass-through. I would use 2x4's where possible. .

Yes you can toe nail or screw boards on if you need to. For electrical you can notch the new 2x boards you use to go around the wires. Pretty easy to do. Just make sure you insulate things good and seal up all gaps you can. Spray foam the electrical boxes from the outside, really helps with drafts.

2) I'm happy that it looks like for the most part, I can use full sheets on the side. On the gable ends however, I'll need to stack sheets vertically. Should I use small 'z' flashing on the horizontal seams between the top and bottom sheets? Or just butt them and caulk? (I think I know the answer already).

I've never used the smart side panels but with the standard wood T-11 I believe it is, you use a Z trim. This will keep all water out. I'm sure if you google the manufacturer of the smart side panels you can find directions online and they should say what you need to do.

3) Windows - I plan to re-frame openings where necessary (some of the windows are pretty large - two on the end are close to 80" tall), apply siding, cut open window openings and install on the outside of the siding (new construction windows with nail fins - caulk or butyl tape applied underneath) then cover the nail fins with smartside trim and caulk. Is this the correct order of install or should I install the windows direct to the frame and then install siding?.

I'm not sure with the smart siding but usually the nailing flange goes under the siding. I caulk first and then install the window and then use the rubber tape to cover the flange. First do the bottom, then the sides, and then the top, overlapping each one. The directions for the smart siding should tell you how to do windows, you can scroll down on this link for installation instructions, http://www.lpcorp.com/smartside/panel/resources/

4) Roofing - I can get the panels custom cut to any size. Currently, from peak to edge of roof measures roughly 8'1". I would like 3"-4" overhang. I understand that at the peak, the panels do not butt against the panels on the opposite side of the peak. The peak trim I use will need a certain amount of overlap though. How much overlap should I have on the peak trim so that I can know how long to have the panels cut? I know there are different peak trim profiles, but the standard size seems to be about 12" overall width with what appears to require 3" overlap on each side (judging by the profile bends).

The best answer for this will be from where you get the panels from or the manufacturer. Google the brand of panels and installation instructions and you should find all the info you need for overlap. Where you get the panels from should also be able to tell you to, unless it's a box store like HD, I haven't found a box store with an employee that knows much of anything yet. They all act and think they know exactly what they are doing but most don't have a clue.

I know it's a lot to take in and I appreciate any help I can get. I'll try and chronicle the process here for all to learn from.[/quote]

[eflyersteve]

Thanks guys.

Re: Window install: The reason I wanted to go outside the panel siding with trim over the flange was so that the windows could be later replaced if needed without removing the siding. I suppose I could just get new glass though. Makes more sense to install into the framed opening and use proper flashing and sealant.

Re: Roofing: The roofing panels that I've finaly settled upon are from the manufacturer and they were very helpful when I called them. My question, which I wasn't clear on - my fault, was how far to space them apart at the ridge (one side of the ridge to the other side - under the ridge cap). The manufacturer told me to just but them together as I was not going to be using a vented ridge cap. I asked because the box stores want to sell panels in 1 ft increments which really messes things up and would require me to trim every panel. However, talking with the manufacturer, they will cut to the inch so I'm not worried about this any more. I'll get the panels exactly as long as I need, saving a lot of work and waste.

Re: Siding: I'll go with removing the metal, wrapping with house wrap and then panels over that (after windows of course).

I'll likely not get to all of this until July when my company shuts down for a week. Shouldn't have to worry as much about rain then. In the meantime, I'll start purchasing and stockpiling the materials.

Again, much thanks to everyone!

[eflyersteve]

Update:

Made a visit to my credit union and borrowed the funds to start purchasing the materials. I've estimated the cost of materials to be around $5000 give or take. Borrowed enough to do some kitchen remodeling and install a packaged heat pump too.

On the panel siding, I see that Lowes and HD have the best prices on LP Spartside panels ($26 ea). These have a 50 year warranty and come primed and ready to paint. I also see that Lowes offers a similar product that isn't coated for less than $19.00. Those have a 1 year warranty though. However I think that I'll stick with the LP product for the warranty as we will likely live the rest of our lives in this house. Unless someone here convinces me otherwise.

I have a couple of windows that will need to be re sized - a very narrow one in the bathroom and two very tall ones in the spare bedroom. The bedroom windows ill are built into a sort of rectangular bay configuration. I'll likely build in a window seat when I frame it for the shorter window. Another option would be to change them to french doors and build a deck so the kids/family will have their own space when they come to visit. Just not sure if the bay that is built onto the end of the house can withstand the weight of french doors.

Where we had decided to go with 26 ga steel roofing from a dealer in another state that is having a great sale, we have changed our minds and decided to go with a local manufacturer. The roofing that was on sale only comes in three colors and none of them were what we wanted. Probably going with a burnished slate color. Cost increased about $500 for the entire job but it saves me $150 in diesel for the long trip and a day of lost wages to get them so it's really a wash.

We will be using the next month to watch the sale flyers to try and save a few bucks here and there - a couple bucks off a sheet of siding x 54 sheets can add up quickly.

Thanks again to everyone who has given advice on this project and for all the other tidbits that I've picked up in other threads. Much appreciated.

[ponch37300]

Looking forward to lots of pictures!

I don't know what kind of shape your trailer is in overall but one thing I would suggest is to re level your trailer before you start any repairs if it hasn't been done in a while. It's pretty easy to do, just a dirty job crawling around under the trailer. A water level and 20 ton jack from harbor freight will get the job done. This will give you as level of a trailer as possible to start off with. Will make your life easier doing the rest of the work.

[eflyersteve]

I'll be crawling around under there this weekend and I'll check for level. I have the bottle jack if necessary. I suppose hardwood shims would be the way to go?

Hope it's not off. The steel skirting is attached to a reinforced concrete perimeter 'curb' that extends below the frost line (home is on large piers that are below frost line too). Could be a real bear to loosen all that skirting to re-level but I agree that now is the time.

Thanks again!

[ponch37300]

Yes hardwood shims and boards are needed and as JD pointed out to me the other day hardwood shims and boards or a hud approved equivalent are code. I need to order some since we don't have a MH store close to me and I couldn't find hardwood shims in any of the box stores. They are actually pretty cheap online if you do need them.

There is lots of good info on this site about leveling MHs and the book this site sells is nice to have and has a section on leveling. You will need a water level if you don't already have one. You can make one with some clear hose. I bought one from home depot for around 25 bucks and it was really nice. It beeps when it's level so it makes doing it yourself easy. Well worth the money to me. Also depending on your setup you may need a few extra cinder blocks to set the jack on. One other trick that someone on here shared with me(think it was JD) was to get a cement mixing tub from home depot, they are only about 7 bucks if I remember right and you can throw the jack, shims, tape measurer, etc. all in and drag that around. It worked REALLY nice and I even added an adult beverage holder in it to make sure I stayed hydrated while under there! If it is off try to make adjustments that will level things out and still work with your skirting and plumbing and any other things down there. Might have to raise some spots and lower others to keep everything in line.

Even when you get your trailer frame perfectly level the walls and other parts won't be perfectly level. I'm convinced that they don't supply the workers at MH factories with levels or tape measurers!

[Greg]

The way I do it is to get you readings first and plot them on paper and write with soap stone on the beam next to the pier the measurement as you go. after you get all of the readings you can figure what has to come up and what you can lower to bring it level.

Greg