Bail-Out Bonuses

[oldfart]

Hmmmmm....milllions of dollars...billions of dollars..trillions of dollars...I just can't grasp it all. And I don't think most taxpayers do ither. And...I don't think most taxpayers understand that our gov't has no actual money. When the polititions say..."We"..they mean the taxpayers. When they say "Us"... they mean taxpayers. When they say.."Together we will"..they mean taxpayers. Hmph...I'm gittin' sick and tired of paying for them that ither don't want to work or find it financially better NOT to work. And it galls me that some folks take advantage of circumstances to take advantage of our gov'ts (taxpayers) generosity. (Read: Katrina and New Orleans/ any minorities/ illigle aliens/ 3rd, generation welfare recipients/gas&oil companies etc. ec. etc.! ) And I don't think it's "cool" to send untold amounts of money to foriegn countries to fight problems that they could solve on their own. If South Africa has a problem with Aids...keep away from the monkeys..don't ask me for money. And don't ask me for reparations for former slaves 250 yrs. ago....my "people" were Yankees. And I don't owe the Native Americans...we bought it fair&square..you set the price..we payed it...done. Now it seems I should owe everyone. Go figger?? The bail-out bonus' are only the tip of a never-ending cycle of the "Who I owe" bull++++!" And I don't owe the Unions either. Yes..we needed unions back in the 1940's/1950's. Now it's a Global Market. If G.M. or Ford can't produce a quality car at a price I can afford..tough s++t! Toyota does..so does Honda....and Subaru. And soon China will join the market with a quality car at under $7000 with a 10yr. 100,000 mile warantee. I rekkin' it's hard for me to feel sorry for the American automakers raking in $40 an hour when I'm gittin' by on $13. My Mom often said..."S++t or get off the pot!" I'll tell the American autoworkers and G.M. in particular...do the same. Audie.the Oldfart...

[Dean2]

My thought are;

When somebody over-charges/steals/subverts/mis-uses/etc My money then they stole some of My life,life is a matter of time,and,it takes time to make money,,,yes?

All through history this has happened and,eventually,there is a revolt.We *did* have a war with English rule wich was doing,basically,the same thing as the current Govt and Big Biz.Maybe these rip-off artists think they are smarter than all the ones in the past,but,"history repeats its'self",and,when the "shi$-hits-the-fan",there may be no hidey-hole in the world for the opressors to escape to from 300+ Million *angry* Americans!

I feel that if Yer biz does good then You should be rewarded for Your good and hard work,,,,but,,,,Nobody on earth needs or deserves to be as rich as Gates/Buffet/Oil Shieks/etc!! The *only* people on earth that can change any of it,,is Us!! But We have to get together and do it,,,not spend Our time fighting amongst ourselves while slaving for the opressors,,,in essence all parties(political and otherwise)need to find some common ground..

I'm *not* suggesting *any* form of communism,at least I hope not,I just think that the most powerful force on earth should/could be the average consumer,,if,,they/We were united..

I suppose all My above "stuff" can be labelled as "idealism" and sluffed-off as such,,,but,,,where does the "plan" to disregard idealism come from in the 1st place?!?! The *opressors*!! of course!!..They gather info on demographics and put it to work for themselves,,,,,same as has been done for eons by nearly *all* forms of leaders,,they all,invariably,take it too far eventually too.

"If You want to know the future,,look to the past"

Dean(just a dumb drywaller)

[Harry]

Yo

Monday the lawmakers will take on the question of a $25 billion bailout for Ford, GM and Chysler.

Personally I think they should Reorganize (Chapter 11) and confront the union.

If they can't make an affordable product folks will buy ..... hard cheeze!

Harry

[JD]

Great comment Dean. But how do you really feel? No, really. Great comment.

Yeah, banks, the insurance companies, then auto makers, New York has said they need a bail out, California is saying the same now, all the rest of the states will follow suit. I heard the comment about California that was something like "You can't just let one of the worlds biggest economies fail". It is like blackmail. As with each of these major entities, it was not "You" (mean us the people), that let the economy and businesses fail. We are just the ones who have to pay back all of the glut profits that were wasted. I guess we do have some guilt as we try to do the best for our families and ourselves by making more money. But that only allows big biz to charge more and it goes on and on until things break.

One thing I see as wasted profits is, I bought a Chevy Vega (yeah I know, but I loved mine) in 1974. I drove it 140,000 miles and got about 26mpg city and 32mpg highway. So now I look at the gas misers of today and I have to wonder. You mean car makers could not improve on the gas mileage of a 2300cc motor in 34 years??

rant rant rant
JD

[Harry]

Yo

In the news yesterday:

"AIG getting a $152 billion federal bailout, is speeding up the payout of $503 million in bonus to about 6,200 workers to keep them from leaving."

I say ... please let them leave.

Harry

[Dean2]

Great comment Dean. But how do you really feel? No, really. Great comment.

>>TY JD,,are Ya gonna save it to files for future generations?!, that way My legacy will endure!

Yeah, banks, the insurance companies, then auto makers, New York has said they need a bail out, California is saying the same now, all the rest of the states will follow suit. I heard the comment about California that was something like "You can't just let one of the worlds biggest economies fail". It is like blackmail. As with each of these major entities, it was not "You" (mean us the people), that let the economy and businesses fail. We are just the ones who have to pay back all of the glut profits that were wasted. I guess we do have some guilt as we try to do the best for our families and ourselves by making more money. But that only allows big biz to charge more and it goes on and on until things break.

>>I say "sure",let the Gov bail them all out *AFTER* the CEOs and such have lost *everything*,,houses,vehicles,accounts,hidden accounts,foriegn accounts,kid's college money,,and,,the gold outa their teeth!. Then they and the next batch of Big Biz and Financial Whiz Types might tend to production with less greed..Make them start over. {I haven't had My whole pot of coffee yet,I might soften-up a bit later.}


One thing I see as wasted profits is, I bought a Chevy Vega (yeah I know, but I loved mine) in 1974. I drove it 140,000 miles and got about 26mpg city and 32mpg highway. So now I look at the gas misers of today and I have to wonder. You mean car makers could not improve on the gas mileage of a 2300cc motor in 34 years??

rant rant rant
JD

>> My Sis had a Vega GT Hatchback,My elder Bro could get a 4th gear scratch with it! Snappy little 4-popper if Ya ask Me,and,good mileage when driven nice,as You said. Yepper,vehicles have improved much since then,but,I agree,,,where's the gas mileage?! I say -If it was up their bu^^ they'd know where it was!

Dean

[Yanita]

Well just had to comment about those big SUV's that get lousy gas mileage. My son and DIL are as guilty as the next about this and it burns me up!

They are constantly complaining about there lousy gas mileage...she runs a Ford Expedition and he has a Ford Lariat extended cab. Both rigs have all the bells and whistles!

I always ask them why don't you down size the size of your vehicles...common answer, we need these rigs to have room for the kids!

ROFLMAO!, they need these rigs to feed their own egos! I remember some 30 years ago when they (my sons) were little. I drove around in a used Monza! Loved that little car, and had plenty of room for the kids and all they needed to take with them and fill the hatch with groceries on Saturday!

Today's thought process about bigger is better is what is getting most people into financial trouble. Yes I know Wall Street has not helped us in any way but when do we hold ourselves accountable with "wanting" and thinking we need so much!

Yanita

[Greg]

Oh boy, do those cars bring back memories. In school I was the resident "Vega expert" I could change the head gasket (they were prone to blown head gaskets) and have it out the door in 1 1/2 hours. And the Monza was the same drive train, slighty different body. And then there was the V8 Monza, What a nightmare to work on!
They were a car that was ahead of it's time, It got good mileage, but then the oil supply freed up and everyone went back to the big cars. Greg

[Dean2]

Was the Monza blue?! I think I ended-up with it in the mid-late 90s! ;D

I did have an old blue Monza I drove 90 miles RT 5-6 days a week for a while,was a good little car,I forget what year it was made.

Yeah,I'm kinda guilty too as the best mileage I get is with the car(1991 Olds Ninety Eight RE)at maximum 24mpg,,the truck(1996 Chev Silv Ext Cab 4x4)is worse at about 16mpg average these days. The truck often hauls tools and materials tho.

I can't afford newer more efficient vehicles or I would have a Hybrid about now. I would love to buy a small broken-down car and install an electric conversion kit,,but,,can't afford that either! LOL!

As it is I stay home alot wich saves fuel/money. Also insulated 2 interior walls so I can cut the heat to them more effectively.

Yep,"bigger is better" just means higher payments,bills,maintenance,higher everything! Cars or houses,doesn't matter much.

Dean

[Harry]

Yep

My first was a $200 1954 Ford. First year Ford built the overhead valve engine. My mom sold the car when I joined the Army to buy groceries. Broke my heart.

I have a 1999 Hyundai Accent ... tiny 4 cylinder. I have been thinking of converting to natural gas. What do ya think?

Harry

[Dean2]

Ouch! Your Mom sold it?! I guess since it was for food it mighta helped the pain some.

I'm more of a GM man but will buy anything if I get a good deal. Once had a 66 Ford pickup with twin I-beam and the 289ci engine,3-on-a-tree shift,,that old truck rode/drove great,the body was fine although it was about 16 years old,and,it had a beer,ooops,*beverage* cooler in the driver's door!:)

Dean

[Yanita]

Now folks, don't think I am against people owning what they want..my point I guess is don't b*tch to me about the ever rising cost of running a vehicle that you choose to buy.

I have considered buying a smaller car myself, after all I am typically alone when doing my business. I currently drive a 05 Monte Carlo, 6 cylinder. I can say that it gets great gas mileage for the size car that it is and almost always in city driving. But, I maintain this vehicle.

I have been looking at a Saturn Skye to purchase, but, as much as I love this car, it would not be as economical as it first appears. Only a 2 seater and I have 3 granddaughters.

Hybrids, well I have checked into them also, only half heartily I will admit. From what I have heard the repair bills are currently alot more than I want to withstand, truth be told..at this time I really like my current car and not ready to move on to another.

I feel the same on some of the people that have had their homes foreclosed. I don't care about the shady mortgages that they think they were trapped into signing on the dotted line. It's as simple as holding yourself accountable for your own budget.

I bought this 35 yo doublewide on an acre of land, complete with a 20x24 garage, concrete floor and wired...for 50,000! My bank had approved my Hubby and I for just under 250,000...oh hell even I am smart enough to know that IF/WHEN something went wrong then we would loose it all. We made a conscience decision to not over extend ourselves.

Oh, and Dean, yes it was a blue Monza, and LOL, nobody got it when I was done with it except the salvage yard. I was very young back then, went off the road during a Vt. blizzard. Blew the tranny out of trying to rock it out of a snow bank..couldn't afford the repairs! Great little car though, had just under 200,000 when I ruined it.

Yanita

[Harry]

Yep

Re: Living Beyond Your Means

I say go ahead and live beyond your means ... I'm all for ya!

Just DO NOT make me bail you out when you can not make the payments.

Harry

[Gladey]

I just got a Honda Fit a few weeks ago and I looove it. On the highway I can get 40 mph, and driving in town I get 34. We've always had Subarus, but we decided to get a 2WD for trips and everyday driving when there isn't snow on the road. So now we have The Fit and our '97 Outback station wagon.
This is my first time having car payments, and I'll admit that it sucks, but it's only for a few years, and I plan on having the Fit for at least 10 years.

[Greg]

Following this thread, I find it interesting that many are worried about the US economy, but many are buying forign made/owned autos.

I have worked in the auto/truck/equipment field for 35+ years and for the most part American design & engineering has lead the way. It is suprising the amount of people in the US that make their living either directly or indirectly from the auto industry, even my wife that delivers parts is to a degree dependant on it.

Our first step in shoring up the economy should be to support our own, I do realize that that is next to impossible in all cases, but it is time to at least start trying.

I still stand by my coment that the greed of many corperate CEOs & Wall street are a major factor behind the mess we are in and in no way should they be allowed ANY form of bonus or "extras" to their income when their companies are going under.

There are many areas of the economy that we have little or no control over, but lets start taking what control we DO have. Greg