On demand tankless hot water heater?

[Lorne]

Looks like we need a new hot water heater. 30 Gallons.
This on is heating really hot all of a sudden. I mean scalding.

It is probably 10 years old at least with some rust showing at the bottom which peeled of the lower paint.

Does anyone have one of those new small on demad tank less water heaters heaters?

They are suposed to save you tons of money because they only heat water when you need it.

[Greg]

You may want to price a thermostat first, if you can solve the problem for under $50 it may be worth it depending on the over all condition of you heater. Greg

[thebink]

I installed a on demand water heater and love it. The following is the pro's and con's as I see it...

PRO'S;

1. I NEVER RUN OUT OF WATER

2. MY ELECTRIC BILL USED TO BE $450 A MONTH, NOW ITS AROUND $270 A MONTH.

3. THE COST OF THE ON DEMAND WATER HEATER I BOUGHT WAS AROUND $200 (I GOT IT ON EBAY NEW)

4. I NOW HAVE A UTILITY CLOSET WHERE THE OLD UNIT WAS. THE ON DEMAND SYSTEM IS ONLY 24INCH X 24 INCH

CON'S


1. I had to upgrade the wiring. (I did this myself, it was not that difficult)

2. I had to install a larger circuit breaker for the on demand heater.

3. I had to put a pressure reducer on the line into the unit to slow the water down. The pressure from the meter at my house is 100 psi. (this made the pressure in my showers to go down drastically but the $ I save every month helps me "deal with it")

4. I had to fine somewhere to take the old large unit.

[bkbunny]

I have been thinking of looking into these also,

the bink I have a question, do you need a unit for each bath and the kitchen also?? thats the part I am wondering about, how many of these units I would need?

[Yanita]

Hi Lorne and Bkbunny,

First off the changes the bink made are suppose to require permits and a licensed electrician, so put that on your cost list. Also if you need a pressure reducer that will cost also.

Also, for a tankless I recommend the gas operated ones. The electric ones are about useless, you have to run the water thru them so slowly that the water in the tub will be cold before it can get full.

So if you do not have gas in your home now, that is yet another cost.....

I will leave you a link to one of the tankless heater Hubby and I have been looking at, alot more costly than the one above, but not necessarily better. Really do not know alot about the mechanics of one.

Also some are having trouble with these being allowed with insurance companies in MH. Might want to clear it with your insurance company.

While reading the link I provide please notice that these are only recommended for warm climate areas.

Yanita

http://www.tanklesswaterheatersdirect.c ... rindex.htm

[hvac1000]

In 1982 way before tankless units became popular I installed one in my home. It is not only used to supply my hot water needs for the main part of the house but also to heat the entire structure. My system uses three hot water fan coils in three different sections of the house. The house is 2,600 square feet in size and it has done a wonderful job over all these years. The name of the unit is Paloma and at the time no one was using them as I was. The firing rate is 91,000 BTU’s on high fire and 43,000 on low fire. The unit runs on low fire most of the winter until it gets real cold then the special valve I installed will allow it to go to high fire depending upon the outside temperature. The recovery rate for hot water shower purposes etc. is over 70 gallons per hour with my standard stainless super insulated storage tank holding 40 of those gallons to start with.

This system was an experiment on my part to test the quality of tankless boilers/heaters. Since 1982 I have had to replace the diaphragm (rubber safety device) 5 times in total. The rubber safety device cost me 9.00 each and it takes about ½ hour for the labor. I also had to replace one Grundfos pump that makes the whole system work. The total cost of these repairs is about 245.00 for parts and the labor was mine for free. Now 25 years is a long time for a unit to last but 245.00 is real cheap to keep it going all that time. This unit will last another 50 years at least. I will be dead and gone a long time when it is replaced and if it is replaced sooner it will be because no one will know how to work on it or not follow my instruction book I wrote for this system.

Now for my electric tankless unit. I had a situation with a addition that needed hot water. I really did not want to run a hot water line from one end of the house to the other because without a recirculation system it would take forever to get hot water to the sink or shower. I contacted Eemax and picked up one of there type two heaters. These units take 2- 40 amp circuits to operate and since I had a 125 amp sub panel going into the addition I figured the power situation would be covered.

Hook up was very easy for me since I did this kind of stuff for a living for years. No pressure safety valve is required for the electric units since they only contain about 6 ounces of water. See this comparison and look at what you do not need to do with a tankless unit. Naturally check your local codes but this list is true here in my area.

Conventional Tank Eemax Tankless
T & P Valve Not required
Vacuum Relief Valve Not required
Drain Pan Not required
Thermal Expansion Tank Not required
Shelf installed Not required
Recirculating Pump Not required
Slow Recovery Heats on demand
Stand-by-Heat Loss None


The electric tankless has been in for over 5 years and the only problem was a 25.00 heater needed to be replaced. Always follow the directions that come with the heater for fool proof performance.

I am sure some people do not like the idea of tankless or they are afraid of anything new but tankless has been in the USA since 1920 when Crane company produced there first gas fired copper coil instant whole house water heater. These old heaters used almost twice as much gas as a regular heater at the time but gas was cheap and the wealthy liked the idea of never running out of hot water.

At camp we have many folks who have tankless in there homes. They work great in the Mobile home because they free up space for other things like an extra closet or storage where the big old heater used to be.

Do I believe in tankless? Yes. Have they saved me $$ over the years? Absolutely.
Now for the warning. Tankless units absolutely have to be installed as per the manufactures instructions. They must be purged before fired for the first time to remove any air bubbles in the water line and any time you loose water pressure. When you run out of water air can form in the lines. The electric models do not like air in the lines. This next warning is kind of funny. When my daughter takes a shower she is in the bathroom for a long time now with the tankless and an endless supply of hot water she stays longer that she used to. So remember if you like to take long showers the hot water will be there but you will pay for it.

[Lorne]

Thanks so much for these recommendations.
This will help us decide which way to go.

[cfdfireman]

Quoted text from previous post

[Lorne]

I ordered a new tank water heater yesterday for $600 installed. The tankless would be much more then we want to pay.

Our present heater really only needed a new thermostat, but it is now 21 years old with some rust showing at the bottom. The original warranty was 1 year and the new one will be 6 years.

Can you believe 21 years? The whole house [double wide] is amazing. 99.9% is original.
I think we made a good choice.

Thanks again for all the information.
If we come into money then we will go tankless.

[Yanita]

Hi,

In staying true with this sites policy of giving accurate info I wanted to include that to my knowledge NO tankless water heater is MH approved for interior installation. I will include a link that speaks briefly of this.

Keep in mind though that many of these units are designed for exterior installation....BUT, this may depend on your local codes and what your insurance company says, and of course what type of weather climate you reside in. Also note that these units require professional installation.

DISCLAIMER...Please keep in mind that any installation process of these heaters and there use is strictly the opinion of the poster, not necessarily the opinion of the website.

http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/HeatingP ... g.asp#fag4

Yanita

[mokehillannie]

Yanita,

I tried going to that link and got a message that it was no longer valid.

Annie

[Yanita]

Hi,

If you look on the left side of the page then you will see a bunch of topics, the first one is water heaters, click and it will take you there.

Yanita

[hvac1000]

((In staying true with this sites policy of giving accurate info I wanted to include that to my knowledge NO tankless water heater is MH approved for interior installation.))

I am in agreement with this statement but sometimes a little research can change the facts. I have always been accurate in the information I have provided to this board and feel it is my responsibility to never deviate knowingly from the facts.

Below is a list of Electric and Gas instant water heaters that according to there web site are allowed to be used in Mobile Homes.
Actually ALL electric tankless water heaters are allowed to be used inside Mobile Homes to the best of my Knowledge and some Takiag gas models as well as long as the gas units are accessed from outside (sealed area from indoors). I have provides the source of my post as well.

• Are the AquaStars Tankless Water Heaters approved for mobile homes?
No. However, PowerStar and PowerStream instantaneous electric water heaters can be used in mobile homes.

http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/HeatingP ... s.htm#faq4

From Takagi manual
Manufactured Home (Mobile Home ) and Recreational Park Trailers
WARNING : Read and Review this entire Manual with special emphasis on the Combustion and Ventilation For your safety and follow it for your safety.
This appliance must be installed in accordance with the Manufactured Home Construction and Safety Standard (Title 24, CFR ; Part 3280 ) and ANSI A119.5 for Recreational Park Trailers, the following instructions the instructions supplied with the vent termination, local codes and utility company requirements governing the installation of water heaters in manufactured home ( mobile home ) and Recreational Park Trailers and/or in the absence of local codes, the latest edition of the National Fuel Gas Code, ANSI Z 223.1/NFPA 54 and ANSI A119.5/NFPA 501D.
Location
This water heater must be installed within an enclosure so as to separate the water heater’s combustion and venting system from the interior atmosphere of the manufactured home and trailer. All air for combustion must be obtained from the outside atmosphere. And the products of combusted gases ( flue gases ) must be discharged directly to the outside atmosphere through the gas vent. There must not be any door or other opening into the water heater enclosure from the inside of the manufactured home. Please refer to installation diagrams.
Source http://lowenergysystems.stores.yahoo.ne ... ll.html#mh

Electric Tankless Water Heater Applications
Residential /Domestic Hot Water Water Heating:
Tankless water heaters have been used for decades throught Asia and Europe as general domestic hot water heaters. During the last decade, North American manufacturers have adapted the technology to handle the more demanding flow rates typically found in most whole-house residential applications in the USA and Canada. The modern electric tankless water heater is ideal for single family homes, condos, apartments, mobile/manufactured homes, guest houses and vacation properties. In recent years, builders, real estate developers, and hotel/motel operators have also seen the benefits of tankless water heaters in adding value to their projects.
Source http://www.gotankless.com/mark_1.html
SEISCO¨ PATENTS, U.S.
UNITED STATES PATENTS:

#6,246,831 issued June 6, 2001
#6,080,971 issued June 23, 2000;
#5,866,880 issued February 2, 1999;
#5,325,822 issued July, 1994;
#5,216,743 issued June, 1993.
Feel free to go to the US patent office (link below) and enter our patent numbers.
US PATENT OFFICE LINK

Most recent patent allowance in June, 2001, for U.S. Patent application filed June, 1999, #6,246,831. In addition to the U.S. patents, there are many foreign patents issued as well as foreign patent applications in process.
Manufactured Housing: SEISCO was first introduced to the manufactured housing industry in November, 1998.

After over three years of very difficult work, Seisco was granted several special use provision exceptions under HUD's Manufactured Housing Construction and Safety Standard.

These accomplishments provided recognition to a tankless water heater as a viable whole house water heater for HUD manufactured housing.

The most recent provision was granted August, 2000. Silvercrest Homes, Homes of Merit, both of which are divisions of Champions Enterprises, Inc., Palm Harbor Homes, Fuqua Homes, Four Season Homes, Fleetwood and Town and Country Homes, a division of Cavalier Homes, are among several of the top ten manufactured housing companies in the U.S. offering the Seisco.

Source http://www.seisco.com/pages/tankless-patent.html

T-K1 On-Demand Water Heaters

JMS Sales is the Manufacturers representative for Takagi Industrials T-K1 On Demand Natural Gas or Propane Tankless Water Heater. Takagi Industrial has obtaind AGA approvals and meets the Park Trailer industry requirements for water heaters. Takagi Industrial and JMS Sales have been promoting the space saving design with the capacity equal to that of a 75 gallon water heater. The T-K1 measures only 24.5" tall 16.5" wide and 8.5" deep. It can be installed indoors or outdoors and produces better than 200 gallons per hour of 140 degree F hot water. The versatility of this unit coupled with the reduced size and light weight (67lbs) make the T-K1 a great match for the Manufactured Housing Industry.
Contact JMS Sales - Joe Sanders at [email protected]

Source http://www.net5000.com/mhd/press1.htm

Multiple Uses:
This amazing instant water heater is designed for one point of use at a time and it can be connected to the existing hot water piping. It is Ideal for small apartments, flats , hunting cabins and small homes as well as boats, campers , RV’s and mobile homes.
It delivers over 96 gallons of hot water an hour with a 45 degree rise in temperature. This means that if your tap water is at 65 °F , it will instantly deliver 96 gallons of hot water an hour of water at 110 °F.
Source http://www.excelamerica.com/calentadores_eng.htm

We own the patented “NASA flow switch technology” that works flawlessly ( US Patent No. 6,552,283.

We are compliant with the new UL499 (Underwriters Laboratories) Standards for Tankless Water Heaters.

CSA Canadian Standard Association

HUD Department of Housing and Urban Development (required for any Government project or mobile home manufacturing).