New Replacement Windows

[suncrest79]

I have a 1979 Suncrest Mobile Home (by Fleetwood). I want to start replacing the old horrible looking storm windows with Vinyl Double Hung Windows.

The home was manufactured with 2 x 3's in the walls, but I think the windows are framed with 2 x 4's. I'm not totally sure about this, but it looks like the openings are about 3.5" deep, with the exception of the kitchen, which is about 4" because of the 1/2" drywall that I recently installed.

So the openings are bare 2 x 4's with absolutely nothing else for framing. Inside the home you can SEE the exposed 2 x 4's around each window, and my wife actually uses the bottom 2 x 4's in some of the rooms as a shelf to put knick knacks on.

So am I all set if I order regular replacement or new construction windows from Home Depot or another big box store? Do I just remove the old storm windows, slide the new ones in from the outside, level and seal them and screw them in?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I also want to reduce the size of my kitchen window. This is a "must do" project, and it is even more complicated, so I will post it separately in a few minutes. If any one has some serious experience with windows please take a look at the next post also.

Thanks - Joe

[JD]

In your other post you mentioned that you have lap siding. This type of siding can be difficult to seal. If this is a high profile siding, you can get a better seal by lining the rough opening with 2x4s. Most retrofit vinyl windows will come with a 2-1/4" flange to seal again the home. This will allow you to get a good seal on the 2x4 and then seal again where the flange meets the home. The 2x4 should also be sealed where it is nailed to the rough opening.

This will reduce the window opening by 3" in height and width. So if the window openings are wide enough to net you enough window space, you will get a better seal. The windows can also be sealed without the 2x4 by installing direct to the existing siding. It is just harder to get a good seal.

I use DAP Dynoflex 230 sealant for vinyl windows. Home Depot as well as most everyone else sells it.

I have never seen a mobile home with framing as you describe, but I suppose they could be built that way. Depending of the windows you select, the depth of the window box could be 3" thick, covering a good portion of that 2x4.

The above is assuming that you are going to use 'Retrofit' frames, as apposed to 'replacement' or 'new construction' frames. Almost all mobile homes in the West use this type of window for replacement. I have heard that they are not sold as much in the Eastern states.

New Construction = Nail fin at mid point on side of frame
Replacement = No fin
Retrofit = ~2" Finished trim frame, flush to exterior of window

JD

[suncrest79]

The above is assuming that you are going to use 'Retrofit' frames, as apposed to 'replacement' or 'new construction' frames. Almost all mobile homes in the West use this type of window for replacement. I have heard that they are not sold as much in the Eastern states.

Retrofit = ~2" Finished trim frame, flush to exterior of window JD

Thanks for the advice JD. I will definetely need the Retrofit type windows. But as you indicated they may not be as available in Connecticut, which is where I live. I'll have to ask if they can be ordered at the big box stores in my area. I need the flange flush to the exterior. That would be perfect.

Also, the current storm windows that I have are attached to the outside of the siding, which should make it much easier. The siding that I have looks like vertical stripes stretching from the roof to the skirting. Every other "stripe" is indented about an 1/8", so not very high profile. I think the flanges would seal fairly easily to it.

Now I just have to find those Retrofit windows. Knowing my luck they will not be as cheap as the other types, and I'll probably have to special order them and have them shipped.

Thanks again for the advice.

[Greg]

Well Joe, JD is right. Retrofit windows are about unheard of in the north east. I use new construction windows when I replace them. Due to price & time I use stock size windows, I found that the extra price, usually an extra 50% and the wait time for them to be built are just not worth the installation time that I would save. Check around, perhaps you can find a better deal, but I would want to take a close look at the existing frames for signs of "rottage". If you find any you will need to replace the frame anyway so you may as well go to the stock size. Greg

[suncrest79]

Well Joe, JD is right. Retrofit windows are about unheard of in the north east. I use new construction windows when I replace them. Due to price & time I use stock size windows, I found that the extra price, usually an extra 50% and the wait time for them to be built are just not worth the installation time that I would save. Check around, perhaps you can find a better deal, but I would want to take a close look at the existing frames for signs of "rottage". If you find any you will need to replace the frame anyway so you may as well go to the stock size. Greg

Greg,

Thanks for the additional information. I totally agree with you and JD as to the availability of "retrofit" windows in the North.

So can you help me with using new construction windows instead? All of the ones that I looked at have nail flanges that are an inch or so inside from the outside trim. Basically there is a gap between the flange and the outside trim to insert regular siding.

But obviously I do not need that gap. So do you just cut the flange off of the new construction windows and then use the outside trim as the flange? And is the flange on new construction windows the only thing that secures them, or do you also screw the windows in the middle of the frame?

Any advice you can give on using the new construction windows would be VERY MUCH appreciated.

As far as the retrofit windows are concerned I have totally given up on them. You can not even find anyone who sells them online! I have googled "retrofit, flush fin, Z-bar, flange, stucco flange, and even Florida flange" replacement windows. No sellers or manufacturers come up at all. Just a bunch of advice on how to install these unobtainable windows. So even people in California can't actually order these types of windows. Who the hell actually sells them to the people who install them? lol.

Thanks - Joe

[Greg]

You can check my photo album, I did a series of photos when I changed our last one. Greg

[Jim from Canada]

If you are using the windows with flanges on them, you can probably get away with getting a slightley smaller stock size. Then just add some new framing in the hole the old window came out of to nail through the flange to. The framing can be covered in ice/water sheild on the bottom and sides, going from the interior vapour barrier and wrapping all the way around. The exterior can then be finished with aluminum trim in the colour of your choice. Put some low expansion foam around the perimiter of the window to fill the cavity between the window and the framing.

Jim

[JD]

As far as the retrofit windows are concerned I have totally given up on them. You can not even find anyone who sells them online! I have googled "retrofit, flush fin, Z-bar, flange, stucco flange, and even Florida flange" replacement windows. No sellers or manufacturers come up at all. Just a bunch of advice on how to install these unobtainable windows. So even people in California can't actually order these types of windows. Who the hell actually sells them to the people who install them? lol.

That is so unfair. What I read was the flush trim windows were started in the West to work with stucco finished homes. Aren't there stucco finished homes in the Northeast? Here in California They will have flush trim vinyl windows (Pella, Jeldwen, etc) in some of the home stores. My local mobile home supply store has them in stock made by Phillips. Phillips vinyl windows is available through Mobile Home Advantage, R&G Supply, mobilehomepartsstore.com, etc., which are all big time online sellers. But when I look in there catalog, all they show are nail fin and siding/nail fin frames. You might call them and see if they can order them. Some of the MH stores only carry specific sizes, but the R&G catalog says "All window sizes are custom order".

http://www.randgsupply.com/

The custom order should not cost a lot more. I installed one yesterday which was about a 2x3 flush fin window. It cost about $120. Even if that was $20 or $30 more, it sure beats reframing the rough opening. The window was installed in less than an hour. It took longer to gather materials and tools and drive the 6 miles to the job site and return than it took to install the window!

If the window you are looking at has the nail fin and a second trim fin creating a slot, it is a siding window. The same supplier can will sell standard New Construction windows that do not have the slot. This is the type Greg installed on his home. Just seal it to the siding using appropriate caulk and stainless steel screws and install a trim over the nail fin. I would use a Trex/ChoiceDek or HardiSiding trim, so it would not rot, twist or crack. Both types of products offer an approx 9" wide, 1/2" thick, 12' long fasica trim that can be cut to size. You would want to pre-drill cement board with a countersink bit so the the screws won't break the narrow trim piece (screws close to the edge). You would want plenty of screws in the ChoiceDek type trim so it won't warp. Both of these products will give you a good seal against the siding and nail flange.

JMO
JD