toilet flushing issues

[ponch37300]

My girlfriend has a single wide built in 2000 and the toilet in the master bathroom has some problems flushing. Two years ago the sewer froze and backed up threw the toilet and since then it has problems flushing. If you use a little bit of toilet paper you have to use a plunger to get it to go down. She had a plumber come over and he took the toilet off and snaked the sewer line and then ended up replacing most of the sewer pipes. Some times the water in the bottom of the toilet seems to drain on it's own. It is really cold right now and this summer i plan on taking the toilet out and seeing if i can see anything and also going to snake the vent pipe to see if that is clogged cause that is all i can think of right now. Anyone have any other ideas to try or look into?

[Harry]

Hi

I saw one like that before. It turned out to be a plastic toy stuck in the toilet. We only found it after replacing the toilet and breaking the old toilet apart with a hammer.

Harry

[SchemeFighter]

I’m not a plumber by profession.

I’m thinking that perhaps it’s just a coincidence that it started to flush poorly after the sewer froze and backed up.

Questions; does it flush good if it’s just water and no solids? Does it flush well enough that it vigorously breaks the siphon when it flushes? If there’s other toilets; do they flush normally? Do the rest of the drains and the house work normally?

If so:
It sounds like the toilet itself may be obstructed. A few decades ago when I was a teenager, we had a toilet that flushed well when it was just water; but the more solids that you tried to flush the worse it was; it clogged very easily. We tried vigorous plunging and various drain products to no avail. Finally we decided to take the toilet out; we took it out on the lawn and repeatedly ran a garden hose through that didn’t have a male fitting on the end; as not to damage the porcelain; because we figured there was an obstruction. After about five minutes of repeatedly pulling the garden hose completely out and then reinserting it with the water running full bore until an obstruction was freed. It was a plastic 35mm film canister. I had taken an empty film canister out of my pocket and set it on top of the toilet tank and forgot about it. I guess me or my father knocked it off the back of the tank and into the bowl after we flushed.

A decade later I was visiting an ex-girlfriend, her toilet started acting the same way when I was visiting. Her son had a bad habit of playing boat in the toilet with random objects. I told her I suspected that her son flushed something down the toilet and it got lodged. It was military housing and we weren’t allowed to fix it; so we had to wait for a plumber; and sure enough the plumber took out the toilet; took it down to the lawn and flushed it out with a garden hose just like me and my father did a decade earlier to our toilet; and sure enough a shampoo bottle popped out.

[ponch37300]

It flushes OK with just water. Not alot of force like a normal house toilet but i thought maybe it was just a cheap toilet in a mobile home? It's cold outside with about 2 ft. of snow so getting to the shut of would not be fun. Guess i should have installed a shut off by the water heater inside(the hot water heater is in the middle of the house, not outside) when it wasn't this cold!

So would one of those toilet augers/snake work to see if anything is plugging the toilet?

[Harry]

Hi

Lots of times a snake will go on by the obstruction and not remove it. You could get lucky.

You could also make major points with the girlfriend and buy her a new toilet. Happiness is a new crapper. JMHO

Keep us posted.

Harry

[lefties]

Sounds to me like its a poorly seating plunger in bottom of tank.

[steve]

The freezing would have had an immediate problem...like a cracked bowl. Sounds like an item is lodged in the trap. Try a metal coat hanger and put a small hook on the end and try to retrieve the blockage. The only other thing could be a clogged vent but doubtfull

[shadow745]

Hi

Lots of times a snake will go on by the obstruction and not remove it. You could get lucky.

You could also make major points with the girlfriend and buy her a new toilet. Happiness is a new crapper. JMHO

Keep us posted.

Harry

Now that is definitely true! Two things that make a woman happy is more closet space and an improved bathroom. Later!

[ponch37300]

Guess i will probably just get a new toilet and be done with it, hopefully! I have read about people that have had things stuck in the toilet before and not been able to get them out. She said the plumber that was here when the pipes froze took the toilet off so i would think he would have seen it cracked if that was the case. In the spring i will snake the vent and see if that is obstructed at all. I don't think it is a bad seated plunger cause it doesn't seem to leak from the tank to the bowl and when flushed water comes out the tank but just seems like the bowl doesn't empty with force, like a syphon isn't being created. Water just seems to fill the bowl, that's what made me think maybe a clogged vent(from past posts i've read).

I am planning on ripping the carpet/vinyl out of the bathroom this spring and seeing how much damage there was from the toilet overflowing and fix what needs to be fixed. Probably have to replace some floor and what not, I know the insulation is garbage because that bathroom(on the end of trailer) is really cold compared to rest of house. I didn't get a start on this till fall and it was cold out so i just put some new insulation in underbelly for now that helped a little but i know most of the insulation under that bathroom probably needs to be replaced, the plumber opened the underbelly fabric up around the toilet.

[SchemeFighter]

It flushes OK with just water. Not alot of force like a normal house toilet but i thought maybe it was just a cheap toilet in a mobile home?

As I indicated before it; you could probably get a better diagnosis if you gave if you gave a better and more elaborate description of the problem and symptoms. As it is you only have answered one of the questions that I asked.

Some of the new low flow toilets are absolutely lousy. If you have a low flow toilet that is functioning normally but not satisfactory just about the only thing you can do is raise the float level as high as possible without risking overflow and fine tune the bowl valve and linkage; if that isn’t satisfactory then you probably have to do research to find a toilet that flushes better and then replace it with a better toilet.

However the toilet didn’t just become cheap all of a sudden now did it? Your post suggests that it was acting more satisfactory previously.


The old-fashioned crapper style toilets flushed great to even though some of them used less water than the modern toilets. Some of the crapper style/Patent toilets had the tanks up by the ceiling so that when you pulled tank valve that the water had a lot more gravity force so the flush was quite violent and fast. I really feel that if we’re going to be politically correct and insist on using toilets that use less water that we should go back to the old fashion style ceiling high tank crapper style toilet tanks. I’ve seen some really crazy stuff with some of these new toilets; IE toilets with electric pneumatic/hydraulic assist flush (Sounds overly complicated and expensive).

Water is easily and readily renewable. Electricity is not as readily renewable in this fashion. It seems somewhat counterproductive and ironic to try to save energy by having an electric flush toilet. I really don’t like the idea of unnecessarily mixing water and electricity particularly in such an intimate fashion.

I digressed.

It's cold outside with about 2 ft. of snow so getting to the shut of would not be fun. Guess i should have installed a shut off by the water heater inside(the hot water heater is in the middle of the house, not outside) when it wasn't this cold!

If you don’t have a shot off by the toilet perhaps when you put in an internal main shutoff; perhaps you should also consider putting a shut off to the toilet.

I prefer to have a shut off by each toilet and sink; so in case there is an a problem you don’t always have to shut down the water to the entire household. Of course that luxury will come at a cost and an additional risk of leaks and maintenance; but it should make the maintenance easier.

So would one of those toilet augers/snake work to see if anything is plugging the toilet?

It might; however there is a good chance it won’t. Even if you take the toilet off you may not be able to get an object out. You could try and you could also try the coat hanger routine. However that might scratch up or otherwise damage the porcelain and upset your girlfriend.

With the toilet off me and my father and in the other case the plumber tried reaching down the bowl from one direction, and then up from the base to try to find the obstruction. Regrettably in both cases they were not able to reach it.

Sounds to me like its a poorly seating plunger in bottom of tank.

It’s hard to tell by the vague description, but that doesn’t seem to be what he is describing.

If it was a g plunger valve failure or adjustment; then the toilet should flush well manually by just dumping a bucket of water in the bowl. I didn’t bother to go that direction; because the vague description doesn’t seem to point me to think the problem is in that direction.

I saw one like that before. It turned out to be a plastic toy stuck in the toilet. We only found it after replacing the toilet and breaking the old toilet apart with a hammer.

I’ve very vaguely remember something like that, it could have been a dream, fantasy, or a story someone told me. But I think I may have seen a video like that on funniest home videos. I seem to remember a guy taking a sledgehammer to a toilet; retrieving a toy plastic boat; and giving it to his son.

Was that you? (joking)

The only other thing could be a clogged vent but doubtfull

Take what I say with a grain of salt because I am not a professional plumber and have never experienced a clogged vent pipe.

Theoretically speaking with my understanding the description doesn’t seem to be quite the symptoms that I would expect from a clogged vent pipe.

I would expect a clogged vent pipe that the flow would be slow to start, but I would think once the flow started that it would want to keep flowing. I was under the impression that a clogged vent pipe symptoms is typically a slow to start flow; then followed by an exceptionally long and violent suction sometimes followed by a sewage smell.

[ponch37300]

Sorry for the vague description.. Thanks for your help schemefighter and everyone else. After reading your last post i went to do some more investigating to see if i could better answer your questions and i got down and stuck my head in the toilet and saw what looks like toilet paper stuck to the top of where the water exits the bowl. I tried to scrap it off with a putty knife but it is like cement, some little flakes came off but don't think I'll ever be able to get all of it off since it goes into the toilet where i won't be able to reach. I'm kinda thinking that when the sewer froze and backed up some toilet paper stuck to the top and has been there since and somehow hardened. Maybe some kind of chemical cleaner might be able to get it off? I'm still thinking i should just buy a new toilet and that will be the easiest fix now that i see a big blockage.

As far as the shut off valves i will put a valve on all the fixtures as they get replaced. Already did the kitchen sink. Just want one on the main water inside so i don't have to crawl under the trailer every time i need to shut the water off. Also if there was a leak i have to take the skirting off and then crawl under to get to the valve. If i had a main shut off inside and there was a leak i could shut everything off quickly and easily. Thanks again for every ones help, hopefully a new toilet will take care of this otherwise I'll be back with more questions!

[Greg]

I have had an intermittent problem here for years, last weekend it was totally plugged, time to do something. After some checking we found that the ground trap was plugged. We ended up hand digging (under the house) and found the cast iron trap was RUSTED shut. ended up replacing everything with plastic. the toilets flush better than they have in years. Greg

[SchemeFighter]

i went to do some more investigating to see if i could better answer your questions and i got down and stuck my head in the toilet and saw what looks like toilet paper stuck to the top of where the water exits the bowl. I tried to scrap it off with a putty knife but it is like cement, some little flakes came off but don't think I'll ever be able to get all of it off since it goes into the toilet where i won't be able to reach. I'm kinda thinking that when the sewer froze and backed up some toilet paper stuck to the top and has been there since and somehow hardened.

I doubt it’s toilet paper. Typically there is a gasket between the tank and the bowl; I always have a bear of a time getting a good seal there ( people with more experience and professionals probably know the trick) I’ve been tempted on some occasions to try to find some gasket material and cut out a new gasket; however I don’t even know if hardware stores and automotive stores still sell blank gasket material anymore. At times I’ve been tempted to try to use that sticky tarry Peratex sealant that never dries completely. It’s probably just some calcium buildup from a very slow leak. After I do a toilet repair I will wipe the tank until it down thoroughly to get it completely dry. I’ll check it periodically the first few hours and once a day for a while; and every time thereafter before I clean and mop. Of the few toilets I worked one was a decade old, the rest were several decades old, and the existing gasket was pretty hard and difficult to seal. It also could be an accumulation of cleansers that condensed on the side of your tank over the years as it was washed and then combined with condensation to drain down under your tank. I wouldn’t worry about it, unless it leaks bad enough that you can see moisture. If you get a new toilet; it will likely have a gasket that’s in better condition.

An obstruction in the toilet is my educated guess; however you never did answer if there was other toilets and how they flushed? Or how well the other drains drain? If they flush and drain good then almost certainly you have unobstructed toilet.

You might try filling up the sink and having your girlfriend pull the stopper after you flush the toilet; tell her if you start screaming to put the stopper back in. If you screem than my hunch is likely wrong and you probably have an obstruction downstream such as the ground trap.

What does it really matter if there’s little calcium buildup underneath your tank where it’s not visible? I usually try to clean it off while I’m at it but I don’t try to get it spotless. A cleaner that removes lime deposits; or just common vinegar might help cut it; but it will take a some time and elbow grease. But you want to make sure that there’s no cleaner residue on the tank or bowl when you reassemble it because it might make sealing the gasket more difficult and over time it might attack the gasket and reduces life and cause a leak.

My secondary advice is if after you fix the toilet and if your girlfriend is appreciative; you might want to consider keeping her. If she’s unappreciative; you might want to consider a replacement.

[ponch37300]

Schemefighter, the hard toilet paper like substance i am talking about isn't between the tank and bowl but where the water exits the bowl. The p-trap of the toilet that is built in to the toilet, where the waste gets washed into. Where the little bit of water sits in the bowl after you flush the toilet. The other toilet flushes better and the other drains seem to work OK. I will try your sink/screaming test tomorrow and see how that goes. I'm almost positive that it is this hard substance stuck in the toilet drain that is causing my problem. Which would mean that you were right in the first place about something stuck in the toilet drain. Thanks again for all your help and you can bet that if she doesn't appreciate me putting up with her crap we will have problems!

[Jbeard1116]

Just a thought, had the same trouble with my toilet. Was driving me crazy and i was getting ready to replace it. Took one last look and found the small hole in the bottom of the bowl that is supposed to shoot water from the front of the bowl toward the trap to push the solids down was totally plugged with calcium. Used a piece of wire to clean it out and toilet works great now. Hope this helps...